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[BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 12:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Default [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Greetings, fellow Greater do-gooders! I come to you all in a time of great need, for there is a new danger threatening our beloved empire. The threat comes in the form of huge, hulking Gue'la, little more than walking corpses... and seemingly impervious to harm!

Allright, I'm new to playing tau, and I played a game yesterday against that one opponent that I don't seem to be able to beat. No matter what army we play with, I don't seem to be able to get the better of him, even though I reguarly beat the people who beat him... ah, well, enough about that. Anyway, we were each trying out our new armies yesterday, I played my freshly-adopted tau and he played his smelly Death Guard-list.

My List:
97- Shas'el, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, Hard-wired multi-tracker

3 Stealth suits, Targeting arrays, Team Leader, Bonding knife.

235 - 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonding knife, Devilfish, Smart missile system, Multi-tracker, Decoy launchers
235 - 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonding knife, Devilfish, Smart missile system, Multi-tracker, Decoy launchers
235 - 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonding knife, Devilfish, Smart missile system, Multi-tracker, Decoy launchers

96 - 8 Gun Drones
96 - 8 Gun Drones
320 - 4 Piranahs, Fusion blasters, decoy launchers, targeting array, target locks

175 - Hammerhead, Railgun, Multi-tracker, Disruption pod, decoy launchers, burst cannons, target lock
175 - Hammerhead, Railgun, Multi-tracker, Disruption pod, decoy launchers, burst cannons, target lock

His list contained the following, to my recollection:
1 Stature lord w/ two close-combat weapons, strength, speed and visage
7 Terminators with Reaper Autocannons
7 Nurgle marines w/ bolters and a plasma gun, champion w/ icon and power fist, jammed into a rhino
7 Nurgle marines w/ bolt pistols and cc-weapons, furious charge, champion w/ icon and manreaper, in a rhino
A dreadnought w Lascannon
One Predator
One Defiler.

Basically, I didn't have anything that could do anything against him... I'll make a brief summary of how things went:

We fought a cleanse mission, I got first turn. I deploy pretty up-front, because I don't want to be cornered, and I want to be able to take out his heavy stuff pretty fast. He also deploys as far up as he can, hiding his entire army behind two pieces of terrain.


My Turn 1:
One hammerhead, accompanied by the Piranah-squadron, zooms up so that it can get a clear shot at his Daemon-prince, dreadnought, Manreaper-squad-loaded Rhino and Preadator. I think I made one of my first mistakes here. I chose to shoot his daemon-prince. Reason? My hammerhead was the only thing that could instant-kill 'im, and I figured that if I tried to kill him by conventional methods, he might get to assault me. And then I'd die.
My devilfishes and my second hammerhead jumped to get a clear shot at his other Rhino and Defiler, and after a whole round of shooting, one of my Firewarriors managed to score one glancing hit on his Rhino and destroy it. I put up a skimmer-wall and lamented that a whole round of shooting hadn't almounted to anything more. My commander Jump-shoot-jumped a terminator.

His Turn 1:
In his turn, he drove up and managed to get Fire Frenzy on his Dreadnought and kill the Hammerhead that had killed the Daemon prince, and get a Crew Stunned result on my other hammerhead with his Predator. And his defiler blasted six firewarriors to smitherines.

My turn 2:
Here, I withdrew my piranahs and hid them in my table quarter, to work my way towards the other table edge, since the wouldn't ble able to take the fight with over half of his army by themselves. My firewarriors and warfishes perfected their skimmer wall, and blasted the nurgle marines. Four died. My commander took a shot at the defiler, but failed.

His turn 2:
His dreadnought and remaining rhino walked up towards my table edge, his predator fires at my hammerhead, and once again it gets stunned. He summons a pack of plaugebearers next to himself that kills one firewarrior with Nurgle's Rot so that the squad didn't get to charge me. Weeh!

My turn 3:
It's hammer time! Well, no, since my Hammerhead still was stunned, but I got both my Gun Dron squads, so I deep-striked them next to the remaining Rhino and, due to a semi-unfortunate scatter, I lost three Gun drones but ended up in the way for one of his exits. I jumped out with my Piranahs from behind a piece of terrain, released the gun-drones so that they formed a wall that connected with my skimmer wall. I now had a nice parameter that protected me against charges, I though. Anyhow, my Piranahs popped the tank, and the squishy nurlge jumped out. My gun-drones killed two nurgle marines. Behind the tank, a gun-drone squad found itself unable to shoot at anything but a dreadnought and the terminators, and so opened fire on the termies and managed to kill two! Zomg, is the word!
My devilfishes repositioned themselves in order to deny the daemons a charge, and blasted the life out of all of them exept for two, and kills one more nurge marine, supported by stealth suits in the back. The commander takes another shot at the Defiler, but fails.
Here I made another obvious mistake, and I don't know how I reasoned; I charged his squad with the manreaper. I think I reasoned that my gun-drones definatly wouldn't survive 12 CC and 4+D6 Power weapon attacks at S5 I5, So I might as well charge him and deny him his Furious charge-bonus. I lost, and the two remaining gun drones managed to flee, and were effectivly out of the game.

His Turn 3:
His evil plan to kill my hammerhead succeds by aid of his dammed Tank-hunting terminators. His Champion with powerfist tried to charge over it, but rolled to short. His other squad got to summon a pack of daemons and scattered 12", landing them directly behind my skimmer wall, next to my Stealth suits. My stealth suits died, and the squad massacred into a squad of firewarriors. His dreadnought shot at and charged my last full squad of gun drones, and caused them to flee, although they weren't below half strength yet.

My turn 4:
Things were looking pretty grim. I loaded up my two remaining firewarrior-squads, fled with one of them(that had nine firewarriors left) from the daemons to take up defensive position for when my other firewarriors died or fled. The other, who had only three firewarriors left, was to far away, and just tried to get away from as much harm as possilble, seeking refuge behinded the wrecked Hammerhead. My piranahs drove into the fray, and threw away two shots trying to kill the Defiler, and two at trying to kill a couple of terminators. Complete failiure. A four-man squad of gun-drones stoppes right next to the table edge.
In the assault phase, six firewarrios were brutally put to death by the evil nurgle daemons, and that happened to be exactly as many as I needed to get out of base contact. So they fled, and almost managed to scramble all the way to my newly-established defensive skimmer wall.
My commander went for a terminator, and missed.

His turn 4:
Everything tries to kill my Piranahs, and gets a couple of shaken and stunned results. His Terminators and his cc-squad(that apparently had a melta) tries to shoot and then charge them, and gets one weapon destroyed. and several stunned results. The daemons manages to catch up with the four survivors and kill three of them. The remaining Shas'ui flees again, and manages to get into safety behind the lines. His defiler gets a stunned-result on one warfish in my skimmer wall.

My turn 5:
My remainging gun-drone-squad rallies and tries go for a table quarter. The lone Shas'ui flees a wee bit longer. My nine-man firewarriors squad decimates the daemon squad to one model. My one Piranah that gets to shoot tries to do so, and misses. My commander once again tries to kill a terminator, but fails. My defilvish, hiding behind the Hammerhead, tries in vain to shoot at the terminators, lacking a squisiher target.

His turn 5:
His last daemon tries to get around my skimmer wall, but cant. His Defiler blows a hole in my nine-man firewarrior squad, killing five. His terminator squad moves to shoot down my devilfish behind the hammerhead, and manages to do so. Two of my firewarriors inside manages to escape and are entangled behind the vehicle.
His assault-squad shoots and-recharges my vehicle in, what appeared to me to be something not intended in the rules, and now two Piranahs die while the other two don't get to shoot. His Dread goes a' Gund-drone-hunt'n, but does not get line of sight.

My Turn 6:
The game is up, and I know it. Now it's just about regaining a shard of honor. The Piranahs are still scoring, but have zero offensive abilitiy, so I fly them behind a piece of cover so that I don't loose my own table edge. The lone Shas'ui manages to rally, and shoots the last of the daemons who killed his comerades. Revenge! The four remaining Firewarriors, lacking a target that they are able to wound, jump up into their devilfish and flee behind a piece of forest. My commander jumps out and manages to kill one more terminator, getting them under half strength.
My gun-drones continiue to flee, but fails to get far enough.. Now I can only hope for a miracle, for the next turn, they'll taste the wrath of the Dreadnought!

His Turn 6:
In this turn, he's out of targets. He walks around a little, his Defiler tries to take down the skimmer with my four firewarriors in them, but fails. His dreadnought kills two gun drones, and thereby wins a table quarter.
And so the game ends. A Solid Victory for him...

Allright, fellows, where did this go so wrong?
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 14:03   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Battle-report and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Honestly? My gut says your list is weak in the anti MEQ department and the anti transport Department. I'd change things around a bit.

You might try dropping the gun drones altogether, Replacing them with either 2 teams of 1 or 2 teams of 2 Deathrains. Sure, Firewarriors can damage a Rhino, but its a long shot. Sure your Piranhas can do it, but wouldn't you rather them able to chase both rather than just 1 Rhino? Deathrains would give you a lot of anti Transport ability even if you just had 2 of them. This would let you then spread your Piranhas over all three Fast Attacks and save you points for not needing Target locks anymore.

Your Stealth Suits don't need a bonding knife, a team leader or a Targetting Array. You're actually better off shooting wise with a 4th Suit (Bought with the 3 dropped TAs!) Since there's only 3 (or 4 if you drop the TAs and put another in) they're taking a leadership check after just 1 casualty. The Team leader is only there to get the bonding knife, which is unnecessary since the only time it will ever come up with 3-4 Stealths is when there's only 1 guy left. At that point, the squad is pretty much combat ineffective anyway. Use those extra 20 points towards something else.

For your Heavy Support, I like an Ionhead, but 2 rains works. I'd drop the Disruption Pods. Just keep your Hammers moving. Speaking of dropping defenses, I'd cut the Decoy launchers from the Piranhas also. While will be used, anything bigger than a lasgun has a chance at hitting their sides and rear, which means you'll be drawing large amounts of small arms fire from the enemy to take them out. Enough shots and they're dead anyway. Save the points for more guns. If you can sneak the Ion in somewhere, its a big help against marines and transports. You might be able to get 2 Ions in there if you only take one rail. Personally I use Snipers, but you're working the pure mech line so you might think about two Ions.

So with all that you could sneak in another Ionhead or just a bunch of Deathrains that will really break transports and have a high enough Strength to be a threat to the prince afterwards.

If you're sitting on extra points, there's always more Stealths or another commander kitted out more towards MEQs. A plasma and a CIB work well if you feel lucky enough to roll 6s (Which if you look at its S to the Marine T mean's you'll be getting 6s from 50% of the wound rolls that actually hit them. I like the CIB; I know a lot of people think of it as just a GEQ killer, but AP1 is nice even when its just occasional.

---------------

As far as tactics go, When those Rhinos had marines in them, anything that could have been significant hurt should have been going to them in my opinion. Its good to cook marines inside tanks. So that early shot to the prince, was a bad idea from my standpoint.

Although, charging with your gun drones was probably a good idea. It confuses some opponents to no end. I remember the first time I said "And I assault with my drones." to one opponent and he looked at me like I had turned blue.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 15:49   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Battle-report and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Couple of suggestions to make your list more MEQ threatening:

Shas'el - drop the targetting array and twinlink the plasma rifle; replace the mp with a fusion blaster
Elites - drop the stealth altogether and replace with 1 unit of 2 crisis suits armed with TL plasma and targetting arrays; in you can find the points, throw in a shield drone to this unit (total cost w/drone=150)

Keep the above units in reserve and deep strike them in behind enemy lines. You are virtually guaranteed three MEQ kills at 24" and seven at 12" (be sure to JSJ after that 12" shot). Keep the shas'el behind the crisis unit and assume that the shield drone is only enough protection to get your guys into 12" range.

Drop one if not both of the gun drone units. If you need drones, peel them off the piranha and devilfish (SMS on transport devilfish is not a great deal, you essential pay 30pts for this upgrade!). I am not saying the warfish isn't fun, but transports sit at the front line and don't really benefit from a weapon that doesn't require LOS. 3 burst cannon shots, plus 2 TL pinning shots are pretty tough already.

Drop the disruption pods on the HH and replace the burst cannons with SMS. You want to hang back with the HH, given the 72" range of the railgun. Let your enemy take potshots at the encroaching devilfish, meanwhile soften him up with submunition rounds from the HH.
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 16:11   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Remember that you can not jump in the same turn that you deep-strike. This means that unless you want your Shas'el and Crisis Teams vaporized by return fire, they won't be active until at least turn 3. Turn 1 they don't show up. Turn 2 they might show up, but you are almost forced to deep-strike them behind cover where they have no LOS to the enemy.
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 19:40   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Just to clear things up, the shield drones are there to insulate the squad from one round of enemy fire. Drop the squad in between 12-24" in LOS from the nearest squad. This prevents an assault on your squad and also allows you to drop 3 MEQs on the deep strike. Again, your guys will attract some fire (distracting that fire from other units) and you will very likely lose that shield drone. Next turn, move in < 12" for six shots of tasty plasma goodness, then hopefully JSJ into some better protection (as you are now sans shield drones).

I realize that this maneuver is not without some risk. In fact, you may want to run a squad of three crisis suits with two shield drones for even better protection. You would also likely need a pathfinder devilfish in play so that you can re-roll a bad scatter using the homing beacon.

At best, these guys can ice a squad of MEQs in one or two turns, at worst they are a tough target that will draw enough fire to allow you to position other units to revenge their (recently) fallen brethren!

I find deep striking suits like this is a deeply satisfying experience giving the ready availability of d/s marine units.
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 19:43   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

following up on Kha -

Since i play hybrid, i've had a few chance to use deep strikers - i find the best units to deep strikes are expendable units

If the target doesnt hide, then you main guns would be better at taking them out than unreliable deepstrikers

the only target worth going after are tanks since infantry will survive the volley from the deepstrikers and just returnfire/charge it.

table quarter claiming is fine, but you can do that with your piranah anyways.

so the only real objective left for deep striker are hiding tanks.....

as such, my deep strikers are expendable units that are equipped to take down tanks and usually deploys super close to enemy tanks to get back armor... this precision deployment is assisted by pathfinders.

think fusion blasters, and massed pulse carbines gunning for rear armor
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Old 10 Jan 2007, 19:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Now, back to your match against smelly marines~

they have high toughness, but their main mode of transportation is their rhinos so if i see that across the table, my first thought is - disable their movement. If i'm reading this right, his only fast things are his rhinos, fast charge lord, and daemon bomb.

especially since your force is a reasonably strong mech list, you should be able to retain complete board control after you disable his rhinos.

2 - peck at him while he's still on foot until his daemons arrive... then close in for the kill.

to this end, i would task the deep strikers to either rear armoring the crab, fall back with everything first turn - esp the HHs, taking possible shots at the rhinos until they crack, then wait for the daemons.

if things get bad, use the piranahs to block rhino exit (moving fast ought to get you in good position) and then pop the rhinos even if you must sacrefice the piranha's shooting.
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Old 11 Jan 2007, 10:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

Thank you all for your tips and critisism, It's greatly appreciated!

I altered my list a bit. I threw out the Gun Drones and got myself three pwetty Fireknives instead, to deal with MEQ and transports. I thought about getting Deathrains, but I reasoned I was going to have to have something that could deal with his Terminators, so I needed some AP2-weaponry dedicated to kill both Heavy infantry and Medium tanks. I thought a bit about a Plas/Fusion-combo, since each suit has a probability of 26/27(about 96%) to kill a nurgle terminator once it gets within those magic 12", but, in the end, the Fireknife became the compromise that I could live with. Besides, I like having a lot of shots, on expense of accuracy, so...

HQ:
97 Shas'El, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targeting array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker

Elites:
90 3 Stealth suits
124 2 Crisis suits, Plasma guns, Missile pods, Multi-trackers
77 1 Crisis suit, Plasma Gun, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, Team Leader, Hard-wired Multi-tracker

Troops:
115 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonded
120 Devilfish, Smart Missile System, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

115 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonded
120 Devilfish, Smart Missile System, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

115 10 Firewarriors, Shas'ui, Bonded
120 Devilfish, Smart Missile System, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

Fast attack:
150 2 Piranahs, Fusion Blasters, Decoy Launchers, Targeting array
150 2 Piranahs, Fusion Blasters, Decoy Launchers, Targeting array

Heavy Support:
170 Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Target Lock, Decoy Launchers
170 Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Target Lock, Decoy Launchers

Total: 1733

I have some 17 points to spend, by the way.

As for tactics: "Kill transports first!" seem to be the general consensus, and that's basically what I aimed to do, so I'll just do that. I've read all of your tips, though, and I've made some notes and will try to test some of them when able.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagonus
If you're sitting on extra points, there's always more Stealths or another commander kitted out more towards MEQs. A plasma and a CIB work well if you feel lucky enough to roll 6s (Which if you look at its S to the Marine T mean's you'll be getting 6s from 50% of the wound rolls that actually hit them. I like the CIB; I know a lot of people think of it as just a GEQ killer, but AP1 is nice even when its just occasional.
I like the CIB, I sometimes go for a MP/CIB-mix to dish out some death to 4+ saves, but I'd never use it if I was going to face nurgle. S3 against T5 and T6 is just not something that works. Nevermind that the CIB is getting AP1 on 6s, it can't wound them on anything less either.
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Old 11 Jan 2007, 13:27   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

I definitely like your new list! Very mobile and representative of good Tau tactics. With the extra points, you may want to make that single elite crisis suit the second hq choice, shas'el. That way you wouldn't need the targetting array or team lead status. You would get another wound and independent character status.

You might also consider moving the smart missiles from two of your devilfish to your hammerheads. This would free up 20 points and you can drop drones to run a screen for the firewarriors.

Please let us know how you do with your new list. Specifically, I want to know how well your piranha units works. I have three but am thinking about buying a fourth. I seem to have trouble with the "open topped" rule adding 1 to the value of the damage roll.
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Old 11 Jan 2007, 13:41   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] and call for aid: Mech Tau vs. Mech Nurgle.

I definitely agree with rebel on the Elite-> HQ Conversion. It was what I was going to suggest after reading the new list anyway.

I'd put the Piranhas in 1, 1, 2 though instead of 2, 2. More versatile that way.
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