[RebelTau]

What about arming broadsides with an ion cannon? I know this is not in the current 'dex, but would seem to be a helpful (and balanced) addition. Perhaps a shoulder mounted ion cannon (not twinlinked) and the option to take other suit weapons. The suit could cost 10 points less than the current suit (no twinlink, no sms).

Or even a twinlinked option for the same cost, with two massive ion cannons attached to the backpack, mounted over the shoulder (that would look pretty wicked).

Arming a suit would seem to give tau a heavy bolter/assault cannon equiv (better than the first not as good as the second).

Would this be useful? If so, how would you balance it?

[Gabriel]

I've toyed with the idea on several occations, and I think it's a pretty good one. I don't see any problems with just making a twin-linked option to the Railguns. It seems to be a fair tradeoff.

Then again, this would probably make Sniper drones totally obsolete.

[Deadnight]

Originally Posted by RebelTau

What about arming broadsides with an ion cannon? I know this is not in the current 'dex, but would seem to be a helpful (and balanced) addition. Perhaps a shoulder mounted ion cannon (not twinlinked) and the option to take other suit weapons. The suit could cost 10 points less than the current suit (no twinlink, no sms).

Or even a twinlinked option for the same cost, with two massive ion cannons attached to the backpack, mounted over the shoulder (that would look pretty wicked).

Arming a suit would seem to give tau a heavy bolter/assault cannon equiv (better than the first not as good as the second).

Would this be useful? If so, how would you balance it?

an ion cannon on a broadside? plus suit weapons. say, a missile pod? for 60pts, plus the 12 for the missile pods?

nope. broken. the original broadsides were designed with ion cannons and railguns (ion cannon was replaced by the SMS) and the were broken as hell.

lookie. 3 squads of 3. thats 27 str7 ap3 shots a turn. and if i've got my missile pods, its an extra 18 str7 ap4 shots a turn. effective range of 36" to 60". no infantry army in the game will stand a chance against it. even if its not twin linked, it is severely overpowered to the point of stupidity.

utterly broken, especially with the new markerlight rules. watch me take 2 squads of pathfinders just to mark for these babies. 16 markerlight hits with all that destruction. and i've plenty other options to take on heavy armour.

back to the drawing board with it! balanced it most certainly is not!

[Dalyth Dude]

OTOH, 9 broadsides would cost $315US. AFAIK, the broadsides currently don't have a missile pod option so I think the previous poster's comment on that is not relevant.

Since the railgun on a broadside doesn't function the same as on a hammerhead I suspect that the authors wouldn't have to stick to the vehicle's weapon stats.

While I'm sure playtesting proved an Ion Cannon a poor choice for broadside with the rules at the time, I don't believe that is necessarily the only reason against them. My gut tells me the modelling issues would be an even bigger challenge to overcome. Like I said, the broadside version doesn't have to exactly mirror the hammerhead stats.

[CmdrBonesaw]

While I'm sure playtesting proved an Ion Cannon a poor choice for broadside with the rules at the time, I don't believe that is necessarily the only reason against them. My gut tells me the modelling issues would be an even bigger challenge to overcome. Like I said, the broadside version doesn't have to exactly mirror the hammerhead stats.

Yeah, but then it wouldn`t be the Ioncannon we are talking about right now - and this topic as about the Ioncannon as it IS right now.

It wouldn`t work. Everything Deadnight said:
/signed

[RebelTau]

Dal
That is exactly my point! The broadside railgun is a modified version of the hammerhead so the ion cannon could be tweaked to support use on broadsides. My contention is that an i/c xv88 would give us something similar to the heavy bolter (36", str 5, ap 4, hvy 3). Call it an ion rifle, ion blaster, ion space modulator, whatever.

What about a scaled down (both physically and statwise) version of the i/c:
48", str 5, ap 3, hvy 3

The rationale is that power constraints of the xv88 reduce the overall range and strength, but the ion technology provides the armor penetration of the original weapon.

I don't think this option would also support a smart missile system so you either get the railgun and sms or the ion cannon and... (tl fusion blaster, perhaps?)

I love the tau but get frustrated that we are so limited in terms of what weapons we can put where! Look at the marines. They can pretty much have any combination of any weapon on almost any platform. Heavy bolter and assault cannon on a fast skimmer? No problem. Lascannon and plasmagun in a six man infantry squad? We got that. Missile launcher or heavy bolter on a scout squad with infiltrate? I'll take two. Autocannon and two heavy bolters on a nicely armored tank? Sure, would you like fries with that?

Apologies for the rant, but it seems that Tau should get similar flexibility with their armaments. What about replacing the burst cannons on a hammerhead with plasma guns? Perhaps a heavy gun drone unit that can join a firewarrior squad? I realize that some of this is already being explored by forgeworld... but I am just far to impatient waiting for IA rules to become chapter approved or otherwise.

PS I know that GW is all about RAW but I hadn't realized TauOnline had the same policy where posts are concerned

Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw

Yeah, but then it wouldn`t be the Ioncannon we are talking about right now - and this topic as about the Ioncannon as it IS right now.

Actually, the original post asked the explicit question, "How would you balance it [ion cannon]?".

[CmdrBonesaw]

I love the tau but get frustrated that we are so limited in terms of what weapons we can put where! Look at the marines. They can pretty much have any combination of any weapon on almost any platform. Heavy bolter and assault cannon on a fast skimmer? No problem. Lascannon and plasmagun in a six man infantry squad? We got that. Missile launcher or heavy bolter on a scout squad with infiltrate? I'll take two. Autocannon and two heavy bolters on a nicely armored tank? Sure, would you like fries with that?

The Space Marines and the Tau have completely different philosophies. A Marine Tac-Squad can cope with everything - and is expected to do so! Hence the multitude of options.
The Tau don`t see an army as an assortment of units which can function on their own and just get together to have larger numbers. Tau units are specialised; Broadsides, for example, are the best anti-tank unit in the complete game - and yet they are utterly useless against hordes of infantry. The opposite is true for Firewarriors. The Tau army forces us to use the right tool for the right task. Not every army can have "face all comers"-units.

Besides, using said 48", str 5, ap 3, hvy 3 weapon would make Sniper Drones COMPLETELY redundant.
Broadsides are fine as they are - their job is tankhunting, and they perform it superbly. For heavy infantry, we have other options.

[Knight Actual]

Ion cannon as railgun replacement for broadsides would be sweet!

I think replacing t/l railguns for t/l ion cannon may actually require a pts increase... think about it

3 broadsides equipped with ioncannon(tl), and plasma rifle(tl), and advanced stabilization - leader has 2 shield drones.... moving up the board center... holy smokes

at 24 inches this squad kills ~7.5 marines a turn...~ 5.5 at long range, and almost a full marine squad at 12"!

it would be the souper marine killer of the whole game... bar non....

escort it with collapsable shas'la lines (FW with eth to stand or break on command).... and even a dedicated assault squad that does get to the area would tremble

I'd personally pay an extra 5-10 per suit to swap the tl rails to tl ion.

[RebelTau]

Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw

Besides, using said 48", str 5, ap 3, hvy 3 weapon would make Sniper Drones COMPLETELY redundant.
Broadsides are fine as they are - their job is tankhunting, and they perform it superbly. For heavy infantry, we have other options.

I beg to differ. The litmus test for a balanced army list should not be one unit with one strength that cannot be replicated elsewhere in the list. The example of a sniper drone becoming redundant ignores the fact that a) sniper drone units come with networked markerlight, b) sniper drone units are protected by a stealth generator, and c) one heavy support slot can support up to three independent sniper drone units. And all of this for the same basic cost as a (projected) similarly equipped ion cannon broadside unit of three.

I would rather not be "forced" to field sniper drones just to gain the benefit of an AP3 weapon in a non-vehicle slot.

Moreover, if the forgeworld units are any indication of what is to come, the tau will likely see tanks equipped tl plasma, fusion, and mp (redundant because these can be gotten elsewhere?), heavy drones equipped with burst cannons and/or markerlights, fast skimmers with markerlights, etc.

It seems that the goal of the game should be to allow the players to make flexible choices within the constraints of a balanced system. If I choose crisis suits with tl plasma versus vespids as my MEQ killer that is my choice. Vespids are not redundant simply because I can equip a crisis suit in a similar fashion.

[Radio-star]

aha! here is an interesting rules idea: put up a rule that crisis suits are not allowed to take heavy weapons, make ion cannons a special issue and +20-25 points..