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Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 13:51   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Hi all!

I doubt anyone remembers, but I did a thread a while back, concerning an all-Gue'vesa army, using ordinary Tau rules. Basically, its ordinary Firewarrior models with diffrent heads, feet and hands.

Now, I have some firewarrior-models done, and I really like the way the little traitors look. However, I have fluff issues.

The fluff fundamentals: Basically, these guys come/live on a snow-world, and are equipped and trained as normal firewarriors. Basically, I thought that everyone ranking 'La or 'ui(without a suit), would be human, while the rest would be Tau. Common enemies will be Imperial Guard, Orks and Death guard, since that's what my most frequent opponent plays.

Problems:
1. Why would the lower-ranking personell be human, and why would they be better trained/equipped than ordinary human Auxiliaries?
2. Where would this world be located, in relation to the rest of the Tau empire? All Tau Cadres have to belong to one of the existing septs, right? So what sept could possibly consider supporting this form of Cadre?
3. I have no idea how Gue'vesa are viewed in the rest of the Tau empire. Could they influence tau politics? Would the diffrent casts really acknowledge them? Would the Earth/Fire/Wind/Water Caste consider training friendly humans?
4. Should I make this an all-human army? Would the Tau consider giving/making heavier arms to aid Gue'vesa? Suits? Tanks? Could I model my Piranha-drivers to be humans(I think it might look really cool) or would it look stupid? Or would it maybe look stupid if I didn't model them to be humans too, like most infantry-men?
5. If I do a mixed force, I'm thinking of maybe letting my Shas'ui from my Firewarrior squads be Tau. Sort of in order to keep the humans in line, or something. I think it might look cool. However, I also play my firewarriors Bonded. Would a tau, at any occasion, consider performing the Ta'lissera ritual with a group of humans? Or is that taking racial tolerance in the empire a bit to far?

Possible solutions:
1: My first thought was that these guys would be ranked a little higher than ordinary Gue'vesa'la. That these guys were sorta Gue'vesa'ui or even Gue'vesa'vre, and that they had been recruited and trained into this force in order to be some tool used for propaganda. The thought behind it would be to blur the line between "us" and "them" in the eyes of their imperial opponents, or something.
1: Another option would be that this cadre is dangerously under-manned, and have tor rely on auxiliary troops to a far greater extent than other cadres.
1: My third thought was that these guys were so-called second-generation gue'vesa. Ordinary Gue'vesa that have been born into the Tau empire, and therefore been integrated to a greater extent. I do, however, not know how long the Tau Empire has had contact with the Imperium of Man.

Anyhoo, I'd love some help.

Thanks!

/Gabe
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 14:11   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Sounds good, heres my views:

Quote:
1. Why would the lower-ranking personell be human, and why would they be better trained/equipped than ordinary human Auxiliaries?
The Gue'vesa fought valiantly during a campaign/phase of expansion, meaning that they were accorded the honour of having better equipment (more below).

Quote:
Where would this world be located, in relation to the rest of the Tau empire? All Tau Cadres have to belong to one of the existing septs, right? So what sept could possibly consider supporting this form of Cadre?
Anywhere you want, to be honest, although I would suggest one of the third phase septs, as they are more likely to have large numbers of auxilleries.

Quote:
I have no idea how Gue'vesa are viewed in the rest of the Tau empire. Could they influence tau politics? Would the diffrent casts really acknowledge them? Would the Earth/Fire/Wind/Water Caste consider training friendly humans?
Depends on the individual Tau, how they are viewed. Each caste, would of course train humans who are good at that aspect, to work with them, you may for example have human shuttle pilots under the jurasdiction of the Air Caste, or human traders/merchants under the jurasdiction of the Water caste.

Quote:
Should I make this an all-human army? Would the Tau consider giving/making heavier arms to aid Gue'vesa? Suits? Tanks? Could I model my Piranha-drivers to be humans(I think it might look really cool) or would it look stupid? Or would it maybe look stupid if I didn't model them to be humans too, like most infantry-men?
While the Tau would not give a battlesuit to a human, or other alien for that matter, it seems perfectly feasable that they would control tanks/piranha. For example, a HammerHead has 2 crew, a driver/gunner and a commander/main gunner. The Driver may be a 'la or 'ui, while the commander could be a 'ui or a 'vre. So humans could command tanks. And it would look good, and be quite fitting.

Quote:
If I do a mixed force, I'm thinking of maybe letting my Shas'ui from my Firewarrior squads be Tau. Sort of in order to keep the humans in line, or something. I think it might look cool. However, I also play my firewarriors Bonded. Would a tau, at any occasion, consider performing the Ta'lissera ritual with a group of humans? Or is that taking racial tolerance in the empire a bit to far?
I can think of no reason why they would not perform the Tal'issera with humans, if they have worked with them, and undergone a trial by fire, then it is a possibility. We already know that the Tau place no negative effects on race/species, so it could happen. More Below.

I like your second generation theory, as these humans would have been fully brought up in the Empire, and would most likely have the same reverance of the Tau'va as the Tau themselves, and because of this would be more trusted, so it seems perfectly feasible to do this. I think this would work as a justification, and is quite fluffy. Apart from that rubbish at the end of DoW: DC, Tau generally treat inducted races as pretty much equals.

Hope this has been some help
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 14:20   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

History is quite full of examples of this kind of thing.

In the Cavalry days of the old west United States, there was the cavalry unit "The Buffalo Soldiers" (I think they were the 8th or 11th cavalry regiment) - black soldiers led by white officers.

There was another armored regiment in World War 2 or Korea, I can't recall - I believe it was the 64th armored brigade (or battalion?) - their symbol was an elephant's head and the white tusks represented the white leadership of the unit.

The Tuskeegee airmen were another famous mixed unit of black pilots and white officers (IIRC they were led by whites).

The 58th Massachussets Infantry during the American Civil War is legendary, with a FANTASTIC movie devoted to their training and employment to combat called "Glory". I cannot recommend that movie highly enough!

Integration generally advanced because of this, and the "white leadership" was used as a means of "controlling the experiment".

Your fluff is actually much easier than you'd believe, because history provides you with countless examples.

In a galaxy of non-stop combat, a particular Tau Ethereal (or maybe even just a Shas'O) has learned to admire the Gueve'sa who pledge their human loyalty to The Greater Good. In an experiment, rather than denegrating them to 3rd echelon, quiet fronts where they can do less harm if they fight poorly, he has trained a volunteer force to fight AS Tau, ALONGSIDE Tau, led by officers.

Rent some movies:
Glory
Tuskeegee Airmen
Dirty Dozen

I'm sure others can add to this. You've got a great idea. Enjoy it.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 15:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Here's an idea if you want to include a little CC in your human tau army.

Use Catachans as Kroot. Give them some kind of high tech rifle (well better than a lasgun, at least) like a lasgun with a tau barrel on it, and some fancy melee weapons, powerblade looking things or something to show their increased strength, then poof! Instant human melee squad that is both stylistically and thematically appropriate. (catachans look lightly/unarmored, they look very strong. They are renowned jungle fighters, etc)

Hounds could be guys with two weapons and maybe an angry/shouting head like they're frenzied berserkers. For Krootox you could use ogryns sporting Kroot Guns
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 16:22   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

What about vespid? I suppose you could use gaurdsmen with stealthsuit jump packs and supercarbines, perhaps make their heads look like the sentinel pilot with the goggles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 23:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

I always thought a squad of Kasrkan Gue'vesa would look really cool. Just give them one or two shoulder plates and saw off the lasgun barrel for a pulse carbine barrel. Yay specialists! However i believe Gue'Vesa are meant to be auxilaries and not whole cadres. It would probably require a majority of Tau. Or even cooler would be a mixed blood Tau/Human.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 23:31   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

They aren't the whole cadre though, they are led by tau. I remember reading somewhere that tau do not have as much manpower as the imperium, so inducting humans isn't too far fetched.

Kasrkin would made awesome honor gaurd.

Glory was very good, and a great example.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 01 Dec 2006, 07:09   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Brilliant... I never even considered a Tau/Human mixed cadre. It makes perfect sense when you think about it.

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Old 01 Dec 2006, 08:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Would be interesting to see what tau-empire humans might become after a few generations if many of them enlist. Maybe a planetary defense force that's been in the empire long enough COULD have a good deal of humans using tau tech, or adapted such technologies.

They most likely ALL have 'hated by' traitor status against other imperials, but they'd probably act a lot more like tau than IG (whereas some newly 'turned' ones would probably be a lot more like a differently painted army with normal IG rules, probably using carapace doctrines,etc...)
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Old 01 Dec 2006, 08:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gue'vesa Cadre, and problems therewith...

Bear in mind, 2nd or third Generation Gue'vesa in the Empire would be treated, and act virtually no different to normal Tau - they would follow the Tau'va, be proficient with Tau Technology, and revere the Ethereals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by privateryann
Or even cooler would be a mixed blood Tau/Human.
Physically and genetically impossible. It would be like me having a kid with a cow.....
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