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Fire Warriors
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 20:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Default Fire Warriors

I was thinking about it, and GW really didn't do the Tau any large favors with their firewarriors.

1. They are weak in CC, which means they have to be useful in ranged combat or maneuverable.
2. They aren't a great shooting unit. While 30" s5 looks impressive, they have mediocre accuracy, they aren't incredibly tough and their firepower is relatively weak against a lot of targets (essentially, they pay 120 points for 4 heavy bolters).
3. They aren't able to fight while moving. Transports mean they can only fire a few times per game (FoF for example), and carbines are short ranged.
4. Their emphasis on good weapons for the individual soldiers means that they have no ablative wounds. An IG or SM force will be able to lose several models without losing too much power. Firewarriors feel every blow.
5. They aren't flexible. Their gun gives them the ability to target most infantry and light vehicles with some efficiency, but they do not have the means to take out enemy vehicles or terminators with any degree of reliability.

I can't understand what GW was thinking when they made them. Unlike most troop choices in other armies (anything except GK), they aren't a flexible choice that can be used to fill in necessary holes. They are simply an option that kills infantry reasonably, something that isn't hard to get at all. Thus, it comes as no surprise that most tournament lists simply shun them, taking only the minimum 6 and a squad of kroot to round out their troops choice.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 20:30   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

I don't really see what you're getting at ... It's no big mystery that Tau lack troop choices, and likewise nobody dismisses the in/effectiveness of Fire Warriors against other targets. So, are you just ranting for the sake of ranting, or is there something specific you had to suggest?

I'm not trying to sound harsh or opposed at all, but I don't see this as a discussion of any sort, nor is it really informative at all. Is there anything someone can say besides "I agree!" or "I disagree!"?
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 20:43   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

It was kind of a rant, but what do you think they could have reasonably done to make it better. Personally, I think they could have done something like given a free reserve of seeker drones (like, 3 per 500 pts). This would have given them a pseudo rocket launcher. Or they could have made a razorback style devilfish with missiles or plasma.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 21:04   #4 (permalink)
Tyr
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Default Re: Firewarriors

Effectiveness aside (not saying I agree with you or not) I love firewarrior teams. Nothing like popping out 48 warriors from devilfish and firing at point blank range.
In my (and i will admit somewhat limited) experience they are the horde killers. With a mech force I play my ork and guard friends have a nightmare time against me. I think they sum up the whole tau army. They were designed to perform a role and they do that role well.
I do miss the versatility of my chaos marine squads but I think that is just part of playing tau.

There relatively low accuracy (BS three is average after all) can be augmented by marker lights. if you rapid fire a termy squad with a couple of markerlight hits you are getting 13.3 (math right?) wounds. so are probably killing a terminator or two.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 21:09   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

well the tau army focuses on the whole not a single squad, so fire warriors might not be the best troops.

unlike marines who are allowed to be awsome! the marines rely more on thier troops than the tau.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 21:53   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

There is only one strategy with Firewarriors: NUMBERS!!

You can take your least amount of minimum-sized squads so you can divert all the rest of your points to "other toys" - usually considered a beardy list for ANY army.

You can take as many maximum-sized squads as you can to increase their fire-potential (and occasional Close Combat Accidents!). Usually seen as the "Swarm Army".

You can do something in the middle - good sized number of squads with good numbers (or maxed out) and use them as the base that the other (support) units work with (the "Ideal").

I vary from Swarm to my own perceived "ideal".

Firewarriors purpose is to be the base of the army. For an army that does NOT specialize in close combat, a good rifle in mediocre hands is good. When you augment it with markerlights, combined with support from smart missiles and other goodies - then Firewarriors are great fun!

I prefer to devote 40%+ to my core and Firewarriors.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 23:26   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

Fire Warriors are great. When talking fluff wise the Tau have great accuracy. The Imperial Guard train for hours a day and years before that, Space Marines Devote long LONG hours at the shooting range. Tha average soldier in our armie today would have BS2 the better trained would have BS3. And the Seals might, might have BS4. The Tau are have shorter life spands than Humans so they of course have less training period. But thier eye sight is great giving them BS3. And this is also the cause for the WS2 because they don't see and react well at short distances. The Tau are really atractive to some people who want an army that is more like to days armies. No the IG aren't like today's army. The squads don't haul around cannons and missile launchers they might have a firing tube to take out something heavy but at most that squad will have alot more than ten men. The Tau are like todays army in that they carry a common gun and let other units fill in the grey areas. This is where the Crisis suits, Kroot, Pathfinders, Sniper Drones, Etc. come in to play. The Tau need the entire army to working as one to perform at their best. Tau aren't always so good when plans fail and go to peices. If all heavy tank weapons are gone than there isn't anythind that can help. IG can have heavyweapons in thier squads to compensate but they rely more on he4avy weapons than Tau who work better with consentrated light and medium fire.
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Old 29 Nov 2006, 23:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

I run two squads of 12 FW in my army one with 6 carbines all the rest have rifles. Unlike other armies were the core infantry can fill any role to a degree (IG with heavy weapons, Guardians with support platforms, Marines all that needs said), the fire warriors are designed to fill one role with highly adaptable elites and heavies, more so then any other army I know. What our FW's lack in heavy firepower to take out termies and vehicles our Crisis, and Stealth's can load up on MP's, PR's, and FB's. I know of no other army that can make a 25 point model cost upwards of 100+ as just a basic elite choice. With our HIGH degree of customization that we get in our elites and heavies we have no need of it in our core units. The FW has a role and they perform it well with co-ordintated strikes from massed Pulse fire and marker lights, while relying on the rest of the army to take care of heavy troop's and vehicles.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 01:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyr
In my (and i will admit somewhat limited) experience they are the horde killers.
Ditto. Firewarriors are one of the best crowd clearers the Tau have. Once I was able to kill a whole command platoon (or something like that) with just one FW squad. In another game, that squad managed to take out a war walker and a guardian squad w. starcannon.

Granted I these were pretty fluke, but the point is that FWs are very good against light infantry and even light vehicles. Like most everything in the Tau codex, FWs are really specialized units that serve a unique purpose in their army. What is this purpose? Well apart from being a really serious pain for most infantry and fast vehicles, I think their long range is meant to allow you to control large swaths of the table. For example, when I play my mech tau, my opponents always try really hard to keep my FW squad from getting a good firing position, which often leave opening for my other units. As far as I've seen, nobody likes walking into range of a line of FWs, unless they're like, AV12+ or something. Heck, even my marine buddies grumble when they have to advance under pulse fire.

Don't be so hard on FWs man. They're alright for what they do for the Tau.
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Old 30 Nov 2006, 01:17   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Firewarriors

ZaruTal pretty much sums up my actual opinion of things, with a bit more detail than I would have cared to go into.

That aside, I really don't think there's anthing wrong with them. The only real weakness they have (In my eyes) is their squad sizes of 6-12. This seems hideously unweildly for what they are, though I'm sure it's more a balance thing than anything else (Wouldn't they be crazy if you could field 2 units of 20 each?).
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