Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Special Issue Tactica?
Closed Thread
Old 16 Nov 2006, 10:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 107
Default Special Issue Tactica?

Allright, by monday, I'll have a force roughly consisting of 1,550 points, 200 points below what I usually field. Thus, I started thinking of what to get next in my list, and stumbled upon the special issiue wargear again. Now, It's not like I've missed 'em before, it's just that I've dropped them in favour of getting my points down.

Now, the very first game I played with Tau i played a semi-souped up Shas'o, with a Cyclic Ion blaster, Missile pod, Shield generator, Ejection system and a Stimulant injector. Plus two gun drones, which was really stupid, effectivly giving him T3 and a 4+ save... ah, well, I learned from that mistake.

Anyhoo, the Special Issiue wargear was really fun to play with. Feel No Pain is fun. A lone, pistol-wielding, armourless Tau with BS5 is great fun to place. And I've got a ton of cool conversion ideas for that model...

But are they good? Or decent, at least? What do you guys think?

Here are my thoughts on a couple of'em:

Airbursting Fragmentation Projector - This piece of Special Issue weaponry wins first price when it comes to unessecary long names. Getting hit by this is exactly like being hit by a large, round flamer. This weapon should work wonders against weaker coverhugging units such as Imperial guard infantry, Ratling snipers and Eldar pathfinders. Massed ork or tyranid armies aren't going to like this weapon eather. I also imagine that it's extra useful against these types of armies in a Cityfight, where range 18" is about as good as it gets and armies can wind up with 2+ cover saves. Because it's a Guess-range weapon, there is not much point in fitting it on a Shas'o or Shas'el. The most economical use of this weapon ought to be on a Crisis team Shas'vre.
Cyclic Ion blaster - Although the description of this weapon gets a little wierd towards the end, it pretty much does exactly what they say that it should do in the flavor text. Assault 5 is by no means something to scruff at, even if the weapon only is S3. One could argue that the Burst Cannon, 7 points cheaper, is the better buy with S5, even though it shoots fewer shots. Against T3-opponents, they do cause about the same almount of wounds. However, one must also take the armour piercing capabilites of the Cyclic Ion Blaster into account. Tau, Eldar and imperial guard stormtroopers would get saves against the Burst cannon, but not against the Cyclic Ion blaster. This means that the burst cannon, generally, wound cause half the almount of wounds in comparison to the Cyclic Ion Blaster.
Vectored retro-thrusters - "Run, Monat, Run!". The Hit and Run skill is invaluable when you get stuck in combat in the enemy phase and really would prefer to just shoot him instead. Which should be almost every situation where you wind up in close-quarter-fighting. I do, however, see two problems with this wargear; 1. It takes up a valuable hard-point. 2. It's not that hard to stay out of combat. However, the vectored retro-thrusters create a pretty interesting tactical way of denying shots; You can simply charge opponents with poor close-quarter capability but impressive firepower in your assault phase and Jump back in theirs, allowing you to shoot at them for two turns while they may not. This is risky, though.
Ejection system - The ejection system seems, at first glance, to be a pretty weak choise. After all, what can a one-wound T3-model with a pistol do? Well, honestly, probably next to nothing in most situations. The gain lies elsewere, though. As long as this model is alive, the unit doesn't count as destroyed(I think?). Meaning, if the opponent wants full victory points for killing your battlesuit, he's going to have to shoot at it again, pulling at least some fire away from the rest of your army. Also remember that there is no guarantee that another squad can even se the model, in which case it might even survive long enough to run and hide. I'm not sure about the rules for scoring units, but if this model is one, that's just another reason why this special issiue system seems, to me, to be a pretty solid investment.
Iridium armour - The main defence of your battlesuit is it's mobility, not it's armour. To trade in some mobility for a better save might have been worth it if the upgrade was free, or at least really cheap. Personally, I prefer to get shot at less rather than to be able to endure it somewhat better but getting shot more often.'
Stimulant injector - I've found that Feel No Pain is pretty much the same as getting another point of armour, up until the point where it ceases to apply. Good against armies that rely on plasma-weapons or autocannons to deal with you suits, not effective at all against Krak missiles and up. Lasguns and bolters loose a lot of their efficiency. If you even glanced at the Iridium armour, this is what you should be looking at.

Yeah, that about sums up what I've been thinking concearning Special issiue systems. So, back to the main question; Why doesn't anybody use these?
Gabriel is offline  
Old 16 Nov 2006, 16:20   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Trois-Rivieres, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 8
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Well actually, fluff wise and game wise, my Shas'el acutally uses the cylic ion blaster..... it's just fun to fire 5 shots plus 2 plasma shots..... I do believe that the more shots you fire at once, the better your odds of getting through..... im not stating this as a fact. Just that it's always fun to see an opponent look at you when you fire 7 dices that hit on 2's (with the right equipment of course) in the shooting phase for a lone suit. And that he knows im just gonna jump out of sight after the shots. He might just make one or two kills with it, but the number of shots fired enhaces your chances of kills compared to two or three shots....

My two cents

Malkav
__________________
What does not kill us...... just hurts like a moffo
Malkav is offline  
Old 16 Nov 2006, 17:47   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 262
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Oh boy, that was a good read. Anyway, here's my thoughts on it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Here are my thoughts on a couple of'em:

Airbursting Fragmentation Projector - This piece of Special Issue weaponry wins first price when it comes to unessecary long names. Getting hit by this is exactly like being hit by a large, round flamer. This weapon should work wonders against weaker coverhugging units such as Imperial guard infantry, Ratling snipers and Eldar pathfinders. Massed ork or tyranid armies aren't going to like this weapon eather. I also imagine that it's extra useful against these types of armies in a Cityfight, where range 18" is about as good as it gets and armies can wind up with 2+ cover saves. Because it's a Guess-range weapon, there is not much point in fitting it on a Shas'o or Shas'el. The most economical use of this weapon ought to be on a Crisis team Shas'vre.
I hate, hate, hate that weapon, since I tried it out once in Cityfight on Tyranids on my Shas'el (was too small point a battle to have a crisis team), and it never hit. Not one single time. I can't stand guess-range weapons since i'm more of a precision sniper guy, but I guess if the guy has a ton of little gribblies all packed together, go ahead. I guess I can agree with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Cyclic Ion blaster - Although the description of this weapon gets a little wierd towards the end, it pretty much does exactly what they say that it should do in the flavor text. Assault 5 is by no means something to scruff at, even if the weapon only is S3. One could argue that the Burst Cannon, 7 points cheaper, is the better buy with S5, even though it shoots fewer shots. Against T3-opponents, they do cause about the same almount of wounds. However, one must also take the armour piercing capabilites of the Cyclic Ion Blaster into account. Tau, Eldar and imperial guard stormtroopers would get saves against the Burst cannon, but not against the Cyclic Ion blaster. This means that the burst cannon, generally, wound cause half the almount of wounds in comparison to the Cyclic Ion Blaster.
Yes, the weapon is quite impressive, but you also forgot to mention that it auto-penetrates your armor on a 6. This just makes it more awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Vectored retro-thrusters - "Run, Monat, Run!". The Hit and Run skill is invaluable when you get stuck in combat in the enemy phase and really would prefer to just shoot him instead. Which should be almost every situation where you wind up in close-quarter-fighting. I do, however, see two problems with this wargear; 1. It takes up a valuable hard-point. 2. It's not that hard to stay out of combat. However, the vectored retro-thrusters create a pretty interesting tactical way of denying shots; You can simply charge opponents with poor close-quarter capability but impressive firepower in your assault phase and Jump back in theirs, allowing you to shoot at them for two turns while they may not. This is risky, though.
Invaluable when you're stuck in the assault phase? A lucky Lictor that I wasn't expecting actually got two wounds on my Shas'el.. which was just what he had left. >

However, I guess I shouldn't quite bash it there. Yes, it's invaluable, and I did like playing around with it, but if they kill you first, there goes a good unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Ejection system - The ejection system seems, at first glance, to be a pretty weak choise. After all, what can a one-wound T3-model with a pistol do? Well, honestly, probably next to nothing in most situations. The gain lies elsewere, though. As long as this model is alive, the unit doesn't count as destroyed(I think?). Meaning, if the opponent wants full victory points for killing your battlesuit, he's going to have to shoot at it again, pulling at least some fire away from the rest of your army. Also remember that there is no guarantee that another squad can even se the model, in which case it might even survive long enough to run and hide. I'm not sure about the rules for scoring units, but if this model is one, that's just another reason why this special issiue system seems, to me, to be a pretty solid investment.
Of course it doesn't count as destroyed.. only monats can take it. However, I absolutely love the modelling possibilities you get there.. and it does have another use. If you're fighting an army that auto-charges at you, give a failsafe detonator along with the ejection system. Once he gets ejected, they still have to charge right at him, and while he's being murdered, he goes BOOM. Str 8 isn't something to screw around with, especially not in large blast. ;D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Iridium armour - The main defence of your battlesuit is it's mobility, not it's armour. To trade in some mobility for a better save might have been worth it if the upgrade was free, or at least really cheap. Personally, I prefer to get shot at less rather than to be able to endure it somewhat better but getting shot more often.'
I totally agree with you.. that upgrade is junk. Trading your assault move for a D6 move and only a single increase in armor save? For the point cost of a plasma rifle? The only good side to this is the way you can paint the model, since iridium looks pretty awesome in reality.



Shiny!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Stimulant injector - I've found that Feel No Pain is pretty much the same as getting another point of armour, up until the point where it ceases to apply. Good against armies that rely on plasma-weapons or autocannons to deal with you suits, not effective at all against Krak missiles and up. Lasguns and bolters loose a lot of their efficiency. If you even glanced at the Iridium armour, this is what you should be looking at.
Feel No Pain doesn't let you re-roll insta-kill, though, which is the bad part. Asides from that, though, you're pretty much right over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Yeah, that about sums up what I've been thinking concearning Special issiue systems. So, back to the main question; Why doesn't anybody use these?
Oh, I use them.. sometimes. I actually had an idea the other day for an experimental Shas'vre:

Hardpoint 1/2:Twin-linked burst cannons
Hardpoint 3: Flamer
Wargear: Failsafe detonator, hard-wired multi-tracker.

This guy pretty much annihilates a small section of the squad, then jumps into close combat. See, he's meant to die, because you'd only send him into large hordes, like a full brood of Gaunts. He then detonates himself, killing a nice portion that he didn't kill normally, and thus he earns his points back.
__________________
Thanks to Rapouc for Chrismas-izing my avatar!

There was a guy who had a suit / And Shas'o was his name-o. / S-H-A-S-O! / S-H-A-S-O! / S-H-A-S-O! / And Shas'o was his name-o!
KanmuX is offline  
Old 16 Nov 2006, 17:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado
Posts: 349
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel

But are they good? Or decent, at least? What do you guys think?
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector
Unnecessary on an HQ choice because it requires no BS to fire. Good weapon in theory, but I've never used it. I like to know EXACTLY what my crisis suits will be doing, and this weapon isn't linear enough for my needs. For the same cost, the CIB wins every time.


Cyclic Ion blaster - Another diamond in the rough. I've become turned on by this weapon on either HQ crisis. Anti-horde and some capability for anti MEQ. I recently played Deathwing with this weapon on a Shas'El, and while it only killed 1 termie, the combination of CIB and Plasma Rifle on an independent character meant that I had a fighting chance each turn shooting, and I was a threat he had to pay attention to.


Vectored retro-thrusters - The problem with VRT is two-fold... First, you're almost always going lost in CC, meaning you have to survive the assault to get away. Second, unless you have an invulnerable save, a power weapon might ruin your day anyway before you get a chance to use it. The VRT is so situational that I rarely take it. It's optimum config is on a Shas'O, but I rarely take Shas'O.

Ejection system - With respect to your opinion, i think this is the most useless piece of wargear in the list. By adding it, presumably on a Shas'O, you really make it a no-brainer that your enemy shoots him dead next turn. If independent character, 4-wounds isn't enough to save your Shas'O, then there's no point putting an extra 15 or 20 points on him to use this. Let him go, and use those points on something else. Truth is, Independent Character should save you 9 times out of 10.

Iridium armour - One I've never used. I don't like compromising that assault move into a position that has no LOS to enemy. Would be a neat upgrade if I could put it on my HQ bodyguard - I'd take it if I could make an XV8 HQ&Bodyguard have Sv 2+...


__________________
Proudly banned from both Mech Tau Tactica and Advanced Tau Tactica by Kai'Lore. Kai'Lore has no honor and the fact that my mere presence reminds him of this is more than his cowardly person can bear. He banned me from the new site after less than a day. =)
heliodorus04 is offline  
Old 16 Nov 2006, 19:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado
Posts: 349
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Stimulant Injector
Feel no pain is pretty good.
But this is what I've noticed: I don't need them on my HQ crisis suits because, again, IC rules mean I'm not getting shot at. And if I DO get shot at, its usually from a tank, who has the fast movement speed to put itself in a position to shoot the IC as closest target, or from a fast assaulter. Since FNP ignores double-toughness insta-kills and weapons that ignore armor, ultimately I reached the conclusion that my IC HQs are better off without it. (In general, the lower cost I keep my IC HQ suits, the better my army performs).

Proximity Detonator
This one I'm still experimenting with. It's not one I put on HQ suits, but one that I'll use on a regular Shas'Vre. It has its uses...

Command and Control Node
I play mechanized, so this isn't that useful to my style of play. I believe in general my Tau do better when they are shooting the closest targets anyway, either to rapid fire or because that which is closest is trying to get me into assault.
__________________
Proudly banned from both Mech Tau Tactica and Advanced Tau Tactica by Kai'Lore. Kai'Lore has no honor and the fact that my mere presence reminds him of this is more than his cowardly person can bear. He banned me from the new site after less than a day. =)
heliodorus04 is offline  
Old 17 Nov 2006, 02:52   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,409
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

The Ejection System I would like to try at some point with a unit of 10 FWs in a DF that stays nearby. That way, if he gets popped, they swoop over, let him join up and the 4+ armour of the other models will save him. Then they can wisk him away in thier DF, and FoF if they have to with 2 of the shots at BS4/5!!!

Of course, that's hoping that if they do pop him, it's from thier last squad to shoot that turn. Otherwise he's toast.

Some of this is just fluffy stuff. However, the one thing I wondered was this: if your pilot has the ejection system and Stimms, does he still get his Stimms save after he's out of the suit? Makes them a pretty good combo if it does, 'cuz it'll take a long time to bust'im, then a few more shots again after he's jumped out.
orion549 is offline  
Old 17 Nov 2006, 04:31   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 534
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

I had a friend who told me that the current trend now after the release of the new Codex: Tau Empire is to fit your Crisis Battlesuit Shas'El or Shas'O with a combination of Multi-tracker, Plasma Rifle and Cyclic Ion Blaster. The Missile Pod seems to have disappeared though I forgot to ask him if he does switch between the Cyclic Ion Blaster and the Missile Pod depending on the scenerio and the type of enemies he would be facing. I'm guessing he does.

Hmm...What about the other Special Issue Wargear like the Positional Relay and the Command Node thingy?
__________________
NeoHunter is offline  
Old 17 Nov 2006, 05:36   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 107
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KanmuX
Of course it doesn't count as destroyed.. only monats can take it. However, I absolutely love the modelling possibilities you get there.. and it does have another use. If you're fighting an army that auto-charges at you, give a failsafe detonator along with the ejection system. Once he gets ejected, they still have to charge right at him, and while he's being murdered, he goes BOOM. Str 8 isn't something to screw around with, especially not in large blast. ;D
Damn, I hate to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but I don't think that's possible. When he gets ejected he has no other equipment than a pulse pistol, meaning he loses everything he had prior to going kaboom. That model that they built an uploaded to the GW-site of an ejected Shas'o with a jetpack, armour and a failsafe detonater, really doesn't help in clearing this up, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KanmuX
Feel No Pain doesn't let you re-roll insta-kill, though, which is the bad part. Asides from that, though, you're pretty much right over there.
Yeah, that's why i usually think it's more or less another point of armour(the statistic diffrence between a 2+ save and a 3+ save is that the 2+ save is exactly twice as efficient, and if feel no pain applies, it halves the number of wounds you should take.). The only thing I know of with a strength high enough but that doesn't have enough AP to remove a 2+ save is the Krak missile. So, well, it's a 2+ save with a special weakness for krak missiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dal'Yth Riyon Mal'Caor (Orion549)
However, the one thing I wondered was this: if your pilot has the ejection system and Stimms, does he still get his Stimms save after he's out of the suit?
Nay, I'm afraid. He's only armed with a pulse pistol, he has nothing else.
This also creates the fun little effect that he also looses all his hard-wired equipment. Not that a hard-wired multi-tracker would do him much good with a pistol, but the blacksun filter might be used. Ah, well, I guess the blast from the explosion simply made all his surgical implants fall out...
Gabriel is offline  
Old 17 Nov 2006, 07:22   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,750
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

ive tried a special issue shaso

AFB
CIB
Shield

iridium
stims
h/w tracker

went up to a horde of guants and put a BIG hole in them
when they shot with flesh borers not a single one bet the armour save
could move as fast as a guant with fleet so he wasnt caught easy
then a ravenor squad (3) was faster then the guants and assaulted, then came the hormoguants
every tyranid died, then came uber 200 pt hive tyrand and guard... Shas'o died
Korill is offline  
Old 17 Nov 2006, 12:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 107
Default Re: Special Issiue Tactica?

Ouch. I don't think i would like that guy playing a guant-heavy list.

Do you have any estimate wheter he made his points back or not?
Gabriel is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
special issue weps miniaturerat Tau 5 23 Feb 2009 00:58
Special Issue Weapons Superchicken 189 Tau 35 12 Sep 2006 12:51
Special Issue Shells- why we should use them Colonel_Sanders Imperial Guard 4 07 Aug 2006 16:52
Special issue systems. Shaso Rael Tau 2 24 Jul 2006 21:18
New Special Issue Wargear Rev_Enge(spc) House Rules 11 19 Apr 2006 21:39