Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Not much love for Burning Eyes?
Closed Thread
Old 31 Oct 2006, 13:19   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Default Not much love for Burning Eyes?

So, I'm going through what must be the standard newbie dilemma of trying to decide what to put on my crisis suits.

Reading through the threads here, I see a lot of Fireknife, Helios and Deathrain, but I don't see very many Burning Eye, which surprises me.

Under 12" a Helios (with MT) gets 3 shots at 4+ => 1.5 hits
but a Burning Eye (with TA) only gets 2 shots but with a 8/9 chance each => 1.78 hits for only three points more.

(advantage swings back to the Helios with TA and HWMT, but that's 77 points and you can't have squads of them)

Moreover, consistency must have some value of its own, no?


Okay, so the FB and MP have their different roles. But we've got a variety of anti-vehicle options, and for 4+ saves massed pulse fire seems like it would do the trick.

Clearly practice is very different to theory, so what have I missed? Have you any war stories of Burning Eye squads, good or bad?




Termie-hunter squad Alpha
3x Burning Eye (TLPR TA) @ 65
inc. 1 team leader, HWDC, 2x shield drones - 35
230 points
panda monium is offline  
Old 31 Oct 2006, 13:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by panda monium
Clearly practice is very different to theory, so what have I missed?
Heya,

From a `kills MEQ & TEQ' point of view only, the Burning Eye is a great suit. But like in another thread, the ability of the `gun' to kill a specific unit a little better than something else, doesn't make it a better `unit' for the job. Think about it simply like this: What do these 65 point battlesuits do when they're not within 24" range? And what do they do when they're not within 12" range? And what can happen to them the whole way there, or worse, when they're within 18" or 12" range of an enemy(ies)?

The problem with Burning Eye is that your most typical shots will be done at longer than rapid-fire range, which means you're near Land Raider costing unit is throwing out 3 shots of Plasma at Twinlinked BS4. And you're limited to only doing it at 24" range at best. That many points for 3 shots isn't really a steal. It's only when you've managed to swoop in within 12" does the plasma open up. And the Plasma at within 12" will do a nice number on MEQ & TEQ. But will your suits survive to see that range? Will you even kill all of your target? Will the target or the rest of his army simply shoot you out of the air after you've shown off some twin-linked BS4 plasma?

There's a lot more to it than simply taking the best most accurate anti-marine gun. Because if it rarely gets to work at its maximum effectiveness, costs a lot of points during those times of less than maximum use or no use at all, and of course is destroyed or crippled during the game quickly, then it's not that effective then is it?

Burning Eye will come into its own when your enemy comes to you often, because Burning Eye very much is a counter-suit. If you run it all boldly out front and hunt someone, you'll likely be punished for it and question the Land Raider price tag. But if you keep them lurking around terrain and other units against an opponent who is going to send something very hard and nasty against you, likely an assault threat, then you've got a nice unit on your hands because if the enemy comes to you, they're less likely to be shooting as much on the way over and your suits don't have to over stretch their necks to get within 12" rapid-fire range to show off their plasma. That entails things like Hive Tyrants that come flying up, Terminators that come Podding down or Deep Striking down, Assault Marines deep striking or flying towards you, Bikes of all kinds, even with their inv. save active from turbo boosting, because you need to still apply wounds and Str6 vs T5 is better than Str5 (though pods are better at this). You get the idea though. When something comes to you, your Burning Eyes will be able to counter them a lot more effectively. If your opponent is playing turtle & castle and sitting in cover and just shooting you from terrain and not coming for you even in the slightest, you will notice your Burning Eyes do rather less than even a squad of Kroot as they will likely not even get to shoot much, and when they do, it's all soaked up in cover saves. So think about who you're facing and how they play--that will determine a lot more about how well your suits can be used.

Just remember--even the Burning Eye needs support. They can't even kill a whole Terminator squad (they can pop 3 on average), so you will need to support them with other things to focus the rest of the intended target away. They cannot kill a Hive Tyrant on their own on average, so again, more help is needed. They can only take down about half the marines in a squad, if there's no cover save involved, so again, they will need help from another unit. But, the Burning Eye does speed up your ability to break them to the point where other units can much more easily finish the job.

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 31 Oct 2006, 14:19   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 445
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

Actually, my first Crisis suits used TL Plasma, and I was reasonably impressed, but lately my Crisis suits seem to sport almost random weapon choices. The current army I play with has these suits as Monats...

Shas'o PR/MP/FB
Shas'o PR, Vectored Thrust
'Vre TL Flamer/ABFP
'Vre MP/BC
'Vre MP/BC

I'm actually quite impressed with these guys. I wish the rules on the suicide bomb were a little more flexible so I could fit one on the TL Flamer guy.

Anyways, TL Plasma is even more expensive than first edition, a clear testament to effectiveness. I'm big on adding missile pods for hitting light vehicles so the rail cannons can focus on the heavy vehicles and so the crisis suits can shoot something while waiting to get into Plasma range.
daniel.wilson is offline  
Old 31 Oct 2006, 14:35   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brampton Ont. Canada
Posts: 6,441
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

I think oen of the main things that puts people off the TL plasma config is that it's ALOT of pts to pay for something that'll kill 1-2 models in a turn. Sure it's still cheaper than the fireknife, but they get the missile pod out of the deal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch: the noob
Is it just me, or does Fish Ead really love to use a Dreadsock?...
I'd hate to get on his bad side... >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiwaz
Fishy has just proved to me that Canadians CAN be scary...
Fish Ead is offline  
Old 31 Oct 2006, 22:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

Me, I think the Burning Eye is somewhat overpriced for it's lack of versatility.

Deathrains on the otherhand are cheap and versatile. Put a flamer on them as the thrid hardpoint and you have a unit which will be able to put damage on enemies at long range, with a high rate of fire, and still toast incoming assaulters. Their higher strentgh means a larger variety of targets such as light vehicles. Plasma by itself is not as versatile, and I'd much rather have a combination of helios, deathrains, and fireknives.
__________________
Click the link and give me 10 views toward 10 million dollars. THIS MEANS YOU!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7B2D8911D19D2
israfel420 is offline  
Old 01 Nov 2006, 04:42   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,840
Send a message via MSN to Khaldun
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

Deathrains with targeting array.... whatever it is they're shooting melts. The 36" range really helps as well.

I mostly play nids, necrons, and marines. Marines die pretty well from pulse weaponry (except termies) nids have toughness 6 nasties, and crons just get right back up again, and also have toughness 5/6 nasties. Lower strength plasma just doesn't cut it against the big nasties, and against termies I prefer a helios shas'el or 'O and markerlights.
__________________
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. - General William Sherman
Khaldun is offline  
Old 01 Nov 2006, 05:45   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Wolf-Tau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,426
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

My two cents, the burning eye is way to specialized. Sure it is a good Termi killer with a certain range but if your not in that range your out of luck and you could lose several turns of shooting.

That is why Deathrain is so popular 36".

WT
__________________
Long Time Space Wolf and Tau Player, played II, III, IV, and now V ed.
Armies Played, Black Templar, IG, Elysians, and Eldar. Tried Grey Hunters
Fear is the Mind Killer. Fear is the little Death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear and permit it to pass over me and through me.
Eldar Blog http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=59588.0
My Non-Breaking Flying base for http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=59730.0
Wolf-Tau is offline  
Old 01 Nov 2006, 09:22   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

thanks for the responses.

@MalVeauX: yeah, i was planning to use the suits defensively. i realise that does rely on your opponent cooperating, though.

i see what people mean about lack of versatility (and a friend plays eldar so Deathrains would be guaranteed mileage ) i just worry about a lack of AP punch :/





panda monium is offline  
Old 01 Nov 2006, 18:01   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,840
Send a message via MSN to Khaldun
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

The lack of AP punch is only painful when the save is a 2+. 5 or 6 wounds is gonna hurt when you have a 3+ save.
__________________
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. - General William Sherman
Khaldun is offline  
Old 01 Nov 2006, 18:29   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Stathelle, Norway
Posts: 1,067
Send a message via MSN to Olannon
Default Re: Not much love for Burning Eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420
Me, I think the Burning Eye is somewhat overpriced for it's lack of versatility.
Agreed... It's just too specific in what it does - leaving it useless against other armies.

~Olannon
Olannon is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to combine your love of 40K with your love of Fishing? Boneguard General 40K 17 01 Apr 2009 01:27
Love the Site and Love the Tau. Oldhammer player coming back to play. Autel Introduce yourself 9 21 Nov 2008 11:33
Deathrains, Burning Eyes, or Sunforges? Hairy Grim Tau 23 19 Jun 2008 03:10
Burning mists. swimmerdude116 Fluff/Stories 0 26 Apr 2006 05:33
What CD are you currently burning? Misfitspunk Enclave Talk 1 08 Dec 2004 21:28