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Rules clarification from GW
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 10:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Rules clarification from GW

I recently asked a couple of questions on this forum concerning the A.S.S and drone wargear. I decided to send off those questions to GW. The only ones that still accepted e-mail rules queries were the US, Canada and Australia (Canada wasn't working at the time, so I only sent to the US and Australia).

The Australian GW has replied to my e-mail, so I shall post it here. I found the A.S.S answers to be quite well thought through. The drone answers weren't even in correct English, and seemed to be rather hastily cobbled together. Still, they're the only "official" answers we can go on at this point :-\

Here is the original e-mail I sent (to both US and Canada):

Quote:
I apologise for not making use of the rules enquiry phone number, but I
have a batch of rather technical questions to ask on behalf of the
www.tauonline.org community and I need a transcript of some kind for
reference purposes.

All of the questions below pertain to the Tau Empire codex and its
interaction with the most current Warhammer 40000 rulebook.

Advanced Stabilisation System

On page 25 of the Tau Empire codex can be found the rules information
regarding the Advanced Stabilisation System. I quote: "During the
Movement phase, the battlesuit may choose to use the Slow and Purposeful
universal special rule for the remainder of the turn..." Of particular
interest here is the use of the word "choose", which is the source of
the uncertainty surrounding the issue.

If a Tau battlesuit (XV25, XV8 or XV88) equipped with the Advanced
Stabilisation System fails to regroup in the owning player's turn for
whatever reason, that suit is obliged to fall back towards some point.
May that suit make use of the Advanced Stabilisation System to count as
Slow and Purposeful for the rest of the turn? This would enable the suit
to fire any/all of its heavy weapons, which is a particularly attractive
prospect for XV88 battlesuits.

If the suit is indeed able to make use of the Advanced Stabilisation
System, how far will the suit fall back? Will it be 1d6" because of the
Advanced Stabilisation System, a normal fall back move (2d6" for
infantry, 3d6" for jetpack infantry), or a halved fallback move (Slow
and Purposeful models always count as moving through difficult terrain,
which halves fallback moves)?

Any unit that rallies in its owning player's turn may only make a
consolidate move in the, may shoot (counts as moving) and may assault
normally. If a suit with the Advanced Stabilisation System rallies in
its owning player's turn, may it make use of the system to count as Slow
and Purposeful for the rest of the turn?

If the suit is indeed able to make use of the Advanced Stabilisation
System, how far may the suit move? Will it be 1d6" because of the
Advanced Stabilisation System, a normal consolidate move, or none at
all?

Drones that accompany units take on the same movement characteristics of
the parent unit. Assume a suit with the Advanced Stabilisation System
also purchased a marker drone. If the suit uses the Advanced
Stabilisation System to count as Slow and Purposeful it may shoot its
heavy weapons while moving, does this ability also extend to the marker
drone?

If accompanying drones also benefit from the Advanced Stabilisation
System, how far may they move? Will it be 1d6" like the parent unit, or
a normal move?

Drone wargear

On page 31 of the Tau Empire codex can be found the rules information
regarding drones purchased as wargear. The box does not state that
drones count as additional models for the unit, instead it lists a few
conditions under which drones are actually considered as extra models. I
quote: "Drones under the command of a drone controller are counted when
assessing if the unit they are with should take a morale check having
taken 25% casualties. They are similarly counted when determining if the
unit is strong enough to claim an objective. If their unit suffers
losses, drones are counted when determining if it is below 50% for
Victory Point purposes"

It seems likely that if Games Workshop intended for the drones to
function exactly as extra members of a unit that they would state so,
which suggests that the quote above is of some significance.

The list does not state that drones are counted when determining whether
a unit counts as below 50% for regrouping purposes. This means that a
single suit that purchased two drones may attempt to regroup after
losing both drones. Is this correct?

The list also does not state that drones are counted when determining
whether a model should take Last Man Standing tests. This means that a
single suit that purchased one or two drones need not take any Last Man
Standing tests after losing the drones. Is this correct?

Summary

Below is a condensed list of all the questions we would like answered:

1a) May the Advanced Stabilisation System be used when falling back, so
that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?

1b) If the Advanced Stabilisation System may be used when falling back,
how far does the unit move? Why?

2a) May the Advanced Stabilisation System be used in the same turn a
unit rallies, so that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?

2b) If the Advanced Stabilisation System may be used in the same turn a
unit rallies, how far may the unit move? Why?

3a) May drones benefit from the Advanced Stabilisation System used by
their parent unit, so that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?

3b) If drones may benefit from the Advanced Stabilisation System used by
their parent unit, how far may they move? Why?

4) Are drones counted when determining whether a unit counts as below
50% for regrouping purposes? Why?

5) Are drones counted when determining whether a model should take Last
Man Standing tests? Why?

I apologise for the length and depth of the questions, but feel
confidant that you will be able to resolve these issues for us.

Yours sincerely

Paul Zietsman (Ketter) on behalf of the www.tauonline.org community
A little wordy, for that I am sorry :-[

And here is the response from the Australian GW:

Quote:
Greetings!!!

First of all, where on wensite is this thread? I tried to find it the
other day and came up short sadly.
Here are my answers:

1a) May the Advanced Stabilisation System be used when falling back, so
that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?
Yes and no.
According to the rulebook jetpack troops will ALWAYS(p 55 of the
rulebook under jetpacks) use their jetpack when falling back so they
will not have the option of using the A.S.S.
However since XV88's do not have such a requirement they are allowed to
turn on their A.S.S and lay down supressive fire while they fall back by
squads.

1b) If the Advanced Stabilisation System may be used when falling back,
how far does the unit move? Why?
The unit will move as if in difficult terrain(USR), so it will fall back
2D6" halved(p48 Rulebook). This is because only broadsides may make use
of their A.S.S while falling back(as mentioned above).

2a) May the Advanced Stabilisation System be used in the same turn a
unit rallies, so that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?
There is nothing in the rules stopping you from activating the
system(apart from jetpack troops falling back) so yes a model with the
system may activate it after regrouping and continue to lay down
suppressive fire.

2b) If the Advanced Stabilisation System may be used in the same turn a
unit rallies, how far may the unit move? Why?
It may move 3". This is the standard consolodation move as given on page
44 of the rulebook and it ignores difficult terrain.

3a) May drones benefit from the Advanced Stabilisation System used by
their parent unit, so that heavy weapons may be fired? Why?
No.
Drones can not carry the A.S.S and because slow and purposeful is not a
unit type, drones may not fire heavy weapons as a result of their parent
unit using its A.S.S.

3b) If drones may benefit from the Advanced Stabilisation System used by
their parent unit, how far may they move? Why?
The whole unit moves the speed of its slowest member(page 15 of the
rulebook and page 17 of the rulebook).

4) Are drones counted when determining whether a unit counts as below
50% for regrouping purposes? Why?
Yes, as they count as part of the unit for all other examples in the
drone box out.

5) Are drones counted when determining whether a model should take Last
Man Standing tests? Why?
Yes, as they count as part of the unit for all other examples in the
drone box out.


Cheers

Jason
Hobby Service Centre
I'll post the US reply when (or if) I get it.
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 11:14   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Hurray for Ketter ;D

Though I must entirely agree with your response. All of the ASS questions were answered well, but the drones ... "They count for this because they counted for the other stuff." That kinda irks me, because honestly, it is the most backwards mechanic in our codex to have drones actually make other units run.

Still, great letter. Can't wait for the US reply.
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 11:36   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Interesting to see their take on it, but yeah the drone part makes so little sense "Oh crap, my frisbees have been shot, just like I wanted them to be so I myself wouldn't die, but now my AI meatshields are dead, I have to run away".

WTF?
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 14:10   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Just to make my standpoint clear.

I entirely agree with the view that units losing drones SHOULD take morale checks. Simply because drones can be fielded as shields doesn't change the fact that when that shield goes down the unit is gonna get worried. Imagine a medieval foot soldier getting his shield knocked out of his hand. It's scary. What I DON'T agree with is that drones are counted when determining whether a unit is below half strength for regrouping purposes, or when determining whether a model should take last man standing tests. That's stupid :-\
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 15:43   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Oh, don't worry - we agree with you exactly. It makes complete sense for (say) a unit of 2 Crisis to lose 4 drones and have to take a morale test.

However, I still disagree with counting them for determining if a unit counts as scoring. If a squad of stealths loses all its drones, how are they any less capable of holding a table quarter? It's not like the drones lead the elites around or anything ...
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 15:57   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Thanks for taking the time to get an official response, Ketter. [+1] It is annoying, but at least we have ways of dealing with it. Maybe they will fix it in the next update and gun drones will be worth taking on battlesuits again. :
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 18:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Woohoo, my first karma point!

With regards to the drones-and-scoring issue. I've actually been giving some thought to it recently and I believe that I've come up with a reasonable explanation. Imagine that both armies are trying to secure some objective, whether it be a table edge, table centre or loot counters. If you are to secure something you have to first take it, then hold it. If you lose half or more of a unit it seems reasonable that the counter-attack will eliminate the other half. That's how I tend to think about it anyway. If the two shield drones with my broadside get killed in the battle, the broadside will probably die when the counter-attack comes :-\
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Old 31 Oct 2006, 22:29   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Lancer
However, I still disagree with counting them for determining if a unit counts as scoring. If a squad of stealths loses all its drones, how are they any less capable of holding a table quarter? It's not like the drones lead the elites around or anything ...
It is done for simplicity's sake alone. GW recently has tried to make the game as simple as it possibly can in 40k, without taking anything away from the game. DOes it make absolute 100% logical sense? Nopers, but it ides make for a simpler drone with less special rules attached to it (and they have plenty of special rules as it is).
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Old 01 Nov 2006, 22:48   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules clarification from GW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketter
Woohoo, my first karma point!
the way you post, Ketter, I'm suprised you're not at +2 at least ;D
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