Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move
Closed Thread
Old 23 Oct 2006, 12:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 121
Send a message via MSN to Ketter
Default A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

I don't know whether these question have been answered (couldn't find a thread covering the topic):

1) May a Broadside elect to use its advanced stabilisation system during a fallback?
2) May an XV15/25/8 elect to use its assault move during a fallback?

Obviously, if any of these special moves ARE allowable they would have to be in the same direction as the fallback.

The only reason I ask is because GW recently announced that units with the Fleet ability may elect to use the ability during the shooting phase, as long as the move is made in the same direction as the fallback.

I'm thinking that the answer to question 2 is a "no", since the suits already fall back 3d6 inches, which seems to include their added mobility. I'm not so sure concerning question 1 though.

From a rules perspective it seems that the A.S.S. fallback follows the same logic as the Fleet fallback: special move abilities may be used as long as they are in the same direction as the fallback. From a fluff perspective it also seems to make sense. The BBB frequently mentions that fallbacks aren't a complete headlong dash for safety, more of a tactical retreat. I can SO envision a broadside backing off from an intense fight blazing with its railguns >

But seriously, any rules that might shed some light on the problem?
Ketter is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 14:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Stathelle, Norway
Posts: 1,067
Send a message via MSN to Olannon
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

1) Yes. Or, what I mean is it can still shoot when you are falling back. According to the USR on page 75 of the rulebook, you always count as stationary when shooting if you have the slow and purposeful rule - I have not seen anything that contradicts this when you're falling back.
[size=7pt]Edit: Thought we were discussing shooting, my bad...[/size]

2) No, just read the A.S.S. entry more thoroughly...
[size=7pt]this one was just waaaay off[/size]

~Olannon
Olannon is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 15:09   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 121
Send a message via MSN to Ketter
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olannon
1) Yes. Or, what I mean is it can still shoot when you are falling back. According to the USR on page 75 of the rulebook, you always count as stationary when shooting if you have the slow and purposeful rule - I have not seen anything that contradicts this when you're falling back.
I understand that Slow and Purposeful allows the firing of heavy weapons on the move at all times. The problem comes in with the actual Advanced Stabilisation System itself. Page 25 of the Tau Empire codex contains the following statement: "During the Movement phase, the battlesuit may choose to use the Slow and Purposeful universal special rule for the remainder of the turn...". The problem I have is the inclusion of the word "choose". Falling back is in itself a rather forced situation, so some might argue that all choice during the Movement phase is relinquished for units falling back. See my concern?

The other problem with using A.S.S. during a fallback is that it reduces the movement during a normal Movement phase to 1d6". If A.S.S. may be used during a fallback, is the fallback reduced to 1d6", or does it remain 2d6" since the Broadside is still an infantry model falling back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olannon
2) No, just read the A.S.S. entry more thoroughly...
Question 2 was in reference to the jetpack assault move, not A.S.S. I assume you meant that I have to carefully read the jetpack rules again. I shall do so.
Ketter is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 15:18   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Stathelle, Norway
Posts: 1,067
Send a message via MSN to Olannon
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

Oh, ok my bad...

Well, there's nothing specifically written regarding slow and purposeful units making a fallback move, and even less so when it comes to units that can choose to use this special rule.

The 2nd one was just completely off; I didn't read it thoroughly enough. Let me get back to you if I find anything.

EDIT: I don't find any rule saying that you cannot move while you are falling back. It's just that most units have already spent their move on the fallback in the movement phase - being able to move in the assault phase, regardless of whether you're falling back or not, is not usual. Hmm, this could prove to be interesting... (boo-libby anyone?)

~Olannon
Olannon is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 17:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,891
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

I think that the BS should fall back on the 1D6 if it uses the A.S.S. It can only move 1D6 in the movement phase so I think that falling back it should move the same. I know that normal infantry can move further during the fall back but that isn't while firing a railgun/SMS. If this doesn't make sense I'm sorry I'm sick and running on three hours of sleep. Stupid school.
__________________


Crisis 541 is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 18:08   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

You can not use the A.S.S. to move differently when you are falling back, as movement is not under your control. You will fall back like any other model. You will still be able to fire, though, as you count as stationary. Fleet is also a choice, so the fact that you have to choose to use the A.S.S. is irrelevant.
khanaris is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 18:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 121
Send a message via MSN to Ketter
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Fleet is also a choice, so the fact that you have to choose to use the A.S.S. is irrelevant.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Units with the Fleet USR do not have to fleet when they fall back, they may choose to.

Also, fleet occurs during the Shooting phase, which isn't affected by fallback (except that the unit falling back always counts as moving). A.S.S, on the other hand, occurs during the Movement phase, which has just been hijacked by the fallback rules.

Lastly, fleet adds distance to that already moved, whereas A.S.S modifies the distance.

AFAIK the only similarity between Fleet and A.S.S with respects to falling back is that they are both special elective movement options.

Btw, falling back 2d6" and being able to fire heavy weapons doesn't make a whole lot of sense :-\
You telling me that a stealth team equiped with A.S.S and a markerlight for the team leader will be able to mark after having fallen back 3d6"?!
Ketter is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 18:50   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketter
AFAIK the only similarity between Fleet and A.S.S with respects to falling back is that they are both special elective movement options.

Btw, falling back 2d6" and being able to fire heavy weapons doesn't make a whole lot of sense :-\
You telling me that a stealth team equiped with A.S.S and a markerlight for the team leader will be able to mark after having fallen back 3d6"?!
Ah. I found the reference. The A.S.S. is activated during the movement phase, and the fallback moves also happen during the movement phase (40k does not have Fantasy's "compulsory moves" phase). You would halve the distance you fall back, just like any other model falling back through difficult terrain. So the Stealth Team would fall back 3d6/2 and the Broadsides would fall back 2d6/2. In both cases, they would still be allowed to fire their weapons. But I don't think you could use the A.S.S. in your opponent's turn, just as fleeing models with fleet can't use it in their opponent's shooting phase.
khanaris is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 19:40   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 709
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

A.S.S. is a no go since Fleet is used in the shooting phase and A.S.S. is a form of normal movement.

You cannot assualt while fallign back so why should you be able to make an assualt move?
__________________
I'm the fiend, the hero, the monster, and the saint all rolled in one. You can call me The Guy.
Malcaor is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 20:39   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 121
Send a message via MSN to Ketter
Default Re: A.S.S./JSJ and the fallback move

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Ah. I found the reference.
Which reference is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
You would halve the distance you fall back, just like any other model falling back through difficult terrain.
I kinda get your logic, but I have no idea where you're coming from :-[ Does this have something to do with the reference you cited above? What are you basing this on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
But I don't think you could use the A.S.S. in your opponent's turn, just as fleeing models with fleet can't use it in their opponent's shooting phase.
Agreed
Ketter is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mod Fallback Plans are in Action! FTyross Enclave Talk 99 19 Jul 2009 17:15
Regular User Fallback Plans are in Action! Yaifrog Enclave Talk 107 18 Jul 2009 01:18
Fallback question mountaincycle661 General 40K 1 16 Mar 2006 23:49
Move 'ere, move 'ere, MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Vega62a Tau 2 09 Dec 2005 00:40