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500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?
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Old 22 Oct 2006, 21:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
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Default 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

I come up with this little list out of a few random models I have laying around:

HQ - Fireknife Shas'el - 87 pts.

Elites 1 - 1 x 3 Stealth Suits - 90 pts.

Elites 2 - 1 x 3 Stealth Suits - 90 pts.

Troops 1 - 1 x 6 FW w/carbines - 60

Troops 2 - 1 x 6 FW w/carbines - 60

Troops 3 - 1 x 6 FW w/rifles - 60

Troops 4 - 1 x 6 FW w/rifles -60

Total - 507

My opponent has 500 points of Chaos. I don't know the exact point costs, but he has something like this:

HQ - Chaos Lord, with Visage and Infiltration.

Troops 1 - Some sort of shooty squad. Also with Infiltration. 8 guys.

Troops 2 - Some sort of choppy squad. Yet again with Infiltration. 8 guys again.

So we both deply on opposite ends of this table, which to me looks like some bombed out Eldar city, with a lot of ruined things to hide behind. The mission was Cleanse, so we both had to defend a table quarter. I deploy my Fire Warriors and Commander, and my Stealth Teams are kept in reserve. Blah blah blah, that isn't the good part.

Turns go by and as his army slowly advances, I keep taking shots with my Commander, who pops out of cover, shoots, comes back. I give his Chaos Lord a wound. Then, of course, his Chaos Lord charges my Fire Warriors, and the funniest thing happens.

My Fire Warriors gave his Chaos Lord two wounds.

I'm serious.. first I had to roll 5+ to see if they even hit, and then a 6+ to wound.. AND IT HAPPENED. "What the hell?" i'm thinking to myself. Then, thinking i'll have an easy victory, I deploy my Stealth Teams via deepstrike. This is where everything goes bad.

One team doesn't even deep strike, while the other deepstrikes right into his close combat squad, since I got a very bad scatter roll. I'm annihlated. Instantly. His shooty squads also annihilate my Commander, since he got a bit lucky with his plasma weapons. Not just that, but his choppy squad just annihilated an entire unit of Fire Warriors.

Final turn - My last Stealth Team deepstrikes, even though EVERY SINGLE FIRE WARRIOR IS DEAD (I was cornered.. HORRIBLY). He also happens to be down to 4 choppy Chaos Space Marines, who lost 4 members due to my Stealth Team shooting them. I also lose 1 guy due to their charge.. and then I take a leadership test. They fail. He wins.

All in all, I think if it wasn't for my Stealth Team failing their leadership, I would've won.. my guys ran away about 10 or so inches, but only with that freak roll did I lose. Dammit. >

Afterwards, we had a victory feast. Of crepes.

Well, now you all get to laugh at me. ;D

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There was a guy who had a suit / And Shas'o was his name-o. / S-H-A-S-O! / S-H-A-S-O! / S-H-A-S-O! / And Shas'o was his name-o!
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Old 23 Oct 2006, 02:10   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

well...let's stop blaming the scatter die and instead look at the postmortem.

-you brought a single weapon (mounted on your commander) which could penetrate 3+ armor, against an entire army of power armor.

-you deepstriked BOTH of your stealthsuit teams, your most valueable assets apart from your commander. Deepstriking is an unreliable tactic at best--and in your case, the worst case scenario happened (when you DSed into the enemy, losing your squad).

-you went overkill on pulse weaponry, taking four (four!) squads of fire warriors and 6 stealthsuits in total.

-you put everybody into small squads, meaning that one or two casualties will force a morale check (and God knows Tau have crappy Ld).

-his troops were infiltrating, meaning you were dangerously close of an assault, which the Tau avoids like the plague.

-Most importantly, your list was cobbled together from "a few random models [you] have laying around", whereas this Chaos guy presumably had a tailored list that stood reasonable chances of winning.

I'd have traded the carbine squads for an ionhead and infiled my stealthsuits (all in one squad) into one of the other quarters, taking advantage of his relative inflexibility (with only three units). While my main firebase fired at the choppy marines the stealthsuits can concentrate fire on the shooty guys, hopefully downing enough to cripple the unit (shouldn't be hard, there are only 8). I'll be spraying ion cannon shots at the lord, hopefully killing him in two turns at most.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Tau
Anyways, just because we have already had someone who called it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealMenUseCarbines
Heh, thought he'd know by now...watch this turn into another relationship advice thread.
*DING DING DING* You're a winner!!! you get your choice of bragging rights or nothing, choose wisely!!!
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Old 23 Oct 2006, 02:31   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

From the intro were KanmuX said his list was from guys laying around. I really think this was a game to waste time not to win. The pusle weapons worked well since he killed all of the chaos except for the four left in the choppy squad. But I do have some advice on the stealths. Inflitrating them is good because you can get them into range on the first turn allowing more pusle shots. And deep striking is never a good I dea I find because they might come to late/early/ or not at all. Always infiltrate the stealths if you can. They also cut back on the infiltrating abilites of enemy units.
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Old 23 Oct 2006, 16:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

Yup, it was just a game to kill time. You're correct, Crisis. Also, I picked out those specific models because I wanted to test out a slightly more static approach, which failed me miserably (meaning i'm sticking to hybrid).

My plan was to keep the Fire Warriors in small squads so they wouldn't be tied up in close combat if a squad ever reached my lines, and once the enemy got close enough and was down to half strength, i'd deep strike the stealth suits. I didn't account for how much they'd scatter, so that almost lost the battle for me, since prior to the stealth suit thing I was doing remarkably well. He lost nearly a half of his men, and I didn't lose a single model.
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 06:49   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

I guess I didn't say it explicitly, but my original meaning was that it's unfair to expect that you'd win because you're not really aiming for winning (a general doesn't go to war with an army he cobbled together with soldiers lying around).

Also, you realize that by splitting up your fire warriors into small groups you basically guarantee a massaccre every time his choppy guys hit a squad. This while good for freeing him up from protecting assault will leave you precious time to relocate as he bounds from unit to unit, slaughtering everybody.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Tau
Anyways, just because we have already had someone who called it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealMenUseCarbines
Heh, thought he'd know by now...watch this turn into another relationship advice thread.
*DING DING DING* You're a winner!!! you get your choice of bragging rights or nothing, choose wisely!!!
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Old 25 Oct 2006, 02:52   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?



Actually you would be surprised how many generals went to war with whatever they could cobble together!

Just had to point that out!

But for sure, in Warhammer or 40k, the "thrown togetehr army" will inheriently be had a gross disadvanatage to a army that was planned out even if not otimimized
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Old 25 Oct 2006, 16:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

Neither of our armies were tailored. It was a friendly game, that's all.

I'm wondering, though, if at such a low point level I should drop my HQ, and instead purchase that +1 BS upgrade for my stealth suits, and use the rest of the points for two Marker Drones? It'd make more sense to have a ton of average pulse shots that hit more often instead of having two bigs guns on a guy and the rest of my guys suffer.

As for not having an HQ, we agreed to let that be possible, since his Chaos Lord was a complete point sink and didn't live very long.
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Old 25 Oct 2006, 17:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

Like in a combat mission. Combat missions don't have to be 400 pnt. They can always be 500.
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Old 25 Oct 2006, 23:35   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 500 pts Tau vs. 500 pts Chaos. Who wins?

My advice would be to lose some FW and get yourself plasma. Besides, if you have some nice terrain, upgrading stealths' BS for points saved on Fire Warriors could do the trick, since with a good set-up and some cover, even infiltrating Marines would never catch your stealths.

I've learned one thing from my games against Alpha Legion: static Fire Warriors are only good for absorbing charges, dying quickly and letting you mop up afterwards (well... they've kinda redeemed themselves by putting last wound on my opponent's Lord and holding the loot counter last time, but still).

Don't drop your 'el, drop some FW, get another Crisis and deploy smart (infiltrate). My 3 cents.

EDIT: And your opponent had better not drop his Lord too, if he knows what's good for him... A tooled-up infiltrating Speed Lord can slaughter your entire ARMY single-handedly with his 19-24" charge range and some good rolling on combat (finishing your squads in your turn, getting freedom of movement in his and murdering your "welcoming comitee"... Happened to me once, and a potential Victorious Slaughter became a mere Draw. Not pretty .
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