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Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 18:14   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

So ... When a vehicle gets destroyed the passengers get out and whomever survive are a unit (they were of course a unit when they were in the transport, so this makes sense) and they fight together.

Tau have hte Piranha, the only vehicle that fights in a squadron AND has passengers ... the drones.

This leads to the fun discussion of ... when a Pirahna is destroyed, and its drones disembark and survive ... are the rest of the squadrons drones forced to disembark at the same time (as indicated in the codex, for a "normal" disembarking) ... or is this a possible (yet expensive) way to generate drone squadrons of 2

Also, if more than one vehicle is destroyed do all drones disembarked in that attack/phase/turn form a single unit, or separate units of 2?

Dunedon (starting out in Tau, and full of questions)
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 18:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

this is a well known rule, you should look through the forums a little more next time. the drones count as a squadron of 2 with a Ld of 4, they count as being pinned if they survive the crash of the devilfish as per normal rules. If only one remains the crash it must make the last man standing check- on a 4, so it will probably fall back.
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 18:57   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

ld 4? isn't that last dex :S
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:05   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

Yeah. Drones always have their base Leadership now, no matter how many of them there are.

There is not a good answer to this question, because the ruling is still vague on how drones disembark from Piranha Squadrons. The House Rule I use is that intentional disembarkation happens all at once, i.e. every Piranha in the squadron must discharge its drones at the same time, forming a large squadron. But if the disembarkation happens on its own because of a penetrating hit or destroyed Piranha, then you can get two-drone "orphan" units being split off without the other drones having to disembark. That makes the most sense to me.
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:08   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by calmsword
this is a well known rule, you should look through the forums a little more next time. the drones count as a squadron of 2 with a Ld of 4, they count as being pinned if they survive the crash of the devilfish as per normal rules. If only one remains the crash it must make the last man standing check- on a 4, so it will probably fall back.
Calmsword:
Although it may be a well known rule as applied to devilfish, i was asking about pirahna's and the effects of a one member of that vehicle squadron being shot down. I have done a search on pirahna and drones in this forum but was unable to determine what happened if only part of a piranha squadron was affected so that is why I asked the question here.

Khanaris:
Thanks for the house rules and the insight ... that's pretty much how I figured I'd have to play it, but was wondering if there was a GW answer I was missing

- Dunedon
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

don't think that i was biting your head off- my bad that i didn't get Pirhana. But as to those rules, Pirhanas can disembark all of their drones and i believe it becomes a single squadron- so if one pirhana is destroyed i would imagine they create their own squadron and are no longer part of the team.
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:14   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

If you are playing in an area where most people are using the updated Adepticon FAQ, you can play that each Piranha's Drones count as a seperate 2-drone squadron, and penetrating hits only effect that Piranha's drones. It is still unclear if they all have to disembark at the same time. But none of the official GW FAQs address this problem. So if you use Piranha Squadrons a lot, I would work out a set of house rules that you and your regular opponents can agree on.
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:32   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunedon
This leads to the fun discussion of ... when a Pirahna is destroyed, and its drones disembark and survive ... are the rest of the squadrons drones forced to disembark at the same time (as indicated in the codex, for a "normal" disembarking) ... or is this a possible (yet expensive) way to generate drone squadrons of 2

Also, if more than one vehicle is destroyed do all drones disembarked in that attack/phase/turn form a single unit, or separate units of 2?
Heya,

Well, we have a few rule sets in effect here that have various variables involved:

Transport Vehicles: Disembarking (4th, page 62)
Damage to Passengers (4th, page 68)
Vehicles in a unit (squadron) (4th, page 73)
Gun Drones (vehicle armoury) (Tau, Page 30)
Gun Drones (vehicle armoury) (Tau, Page 31)

Things we know:

Gun Drones are considered passengers if the vehicle is damaged.
Gun Drones may voluntarily disembark from the Piranha--but all drones must disembark and form an independent unit.
When the Piranha is penetrated or destroyed, the Gun Drones (all of them in the squadron) must disembark immediately (right then!).
Drones forced to disembark in this way are subject to the emergency disembarkation table.
Drones forced to disembark are subject to `entangled.'

Edited:

I retract all that; totally skimmed that sentence of page 31 in the Drones rules.

The armoury special rule of gun drones is absolute. It states that the drones in a squadron of piranha disembark at the same time, and are a single unit.

-- I don't see a reason for it to be vague with that rule. The rules state when you disembark, be it voluntary or forced. The drones rules state that when they disembark, they all do it and they are one unit. Pretty simple then it seems.

Cheers!
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:36   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

But you are not using the critical entry, MalVeaux, which is on page 31 of the codex in the Gun Drone profile. It states that "All Gun Drones on a vehicle or in a Piranha Squadron must disembark at the same time, counting as a single unit." So in the Codex, normal disembarkation from a Piranha Squadron is pretty clear (although as I said, if you are using the Adepticon FAQ, this rule is not in effect). They all have to get off at the same time and they form a single unit. It is only the compulsory disembarkation that needs extra interpretation, simply because the literal interpretation screws them over so badly.
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Old 09 Oct 2006, 19:48   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Piranha ... Drones ... destruction gets interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
But you are not using the critical entry, MalVeaux, which is on page 31 of the codex in the Gun Drone profile. It states that "All Gun Drones on a vehicle or in a Piranha Squadron must disembark at the same time, counting as a single unit." So in the Codex, normal disembarkation from a Piranha Squadron is pretty clear (although as I said, if you are using the Adepticon FAQ, this rule is not in effect). They all have to get off at the same time and they form a single unit. It is only the compulsory disembarkation that needs extra interpretation, simply because the literal interpretation screws them over so badly.
I walked right over that sentence. Totally alters it. I edited my post accordingly.

Compulsory only hurts if they have no way to disembark in coherency; that is bad. But it doesn't mean the rules are shady. It just makes it hard to get a `good deal' out of them bailing from their heaps. But, each model just has to be within 2" of another, so forming a semi-circle stretched thin around the smoking hulls should be possible, even with the 2" distance added from the disembark move. When it comes to open-top vehicles, the rules state: "Open-topped vehicles do not have specific access points. Models can embark or disembark within 2" of any point of the vehicle." It's not so bad.

Duly edited.

Cheers!
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