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Stimulant Injector and Tactics question
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 14:09   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

Hi all,

I'm looking for a bit of clarification on some of the 'stacking' of benefits from a commander's wargear. I play almost exclusively against Necrons and Deathwing (and I get called cheesy the first time I roll up with 5 'fish hulls) and as such I need some sort of counterpunch to lords and dwing masters that have a tendency to show up at close range via veil/deepstrike. So, the idea I had is to kit out my commander (who otherwise would just be a deathrain harassing/supporting from the sidelines) as a counterpuncher to let the rest of the army get clear when that lord/master does show up (usually with immortals and termies in tow).

Shas'O Sp'ydb'Um'p
Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Stimulant Injector, HW Multitracker

My question then is: does this guy get to stack the benefits of his save (regular or SG Inv depending on who's smacking him) and THEN get to roll the Feel No Pain every time he takes a wound, even if all the other saves have somehow been beaten? I essentially want to set him up to always have some kind of 'save' so that when that Staff of Light toting lord strolls up (or floats up on his blasted destroyer body), I have a chance of tying him up for a turn or two while putting some real threat to him. The master of the deathwing is actually not that scary in comparison, as he won't be veiling out when he realizes what I'm up to.

Follow-up question: If by some stroke of luck I'm able to wipe out the unit the character in question is attached to (with the combined firepower of a bunch of running ionheads and dfish, it's nearly come together for me before...one stupid immortal left standing), is it worth my while to assault the character with this Shas'O?

Thanks,

green_monkey

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Old 06 Oct 2006, 15:03   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

A good idea might be to add the Vectored Retro thrusters, so you can exit combat during his turn (I think), and then blow the bastard into his constituent atoms. Or use shield drones (though I think the two are mutually exclusive)
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 15:41   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

I'd have to give up the shield gen to get the retro thrusters, which makes me vulnerable to those pesky power weapons. Although I do like the idea of being able to bounce back and shoot him full of plasma and fusion holes some more.

I was considering putting shield drones on him, but he's already getting pretty pricey for somebody who is likely going to wind up a speed bump. I guess I have to find a balance between the fact that he is designed to get stuck in, and just how many points I'm going to lose because of him.

And on closer reading the Feel No Pain might not be a good idea considering I'm trying to kit this guy out to stand up to some power weapon pain....and it doesn't apply to wounds taken from power weapons. Blech.

So adjustments made to counterpunch commander:

Shas'O Sp'ydb'Um'p
Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, HW Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drone

Now, last question: Swap the plasma rifle for the Vectored Retro Thrusters? The Fusion has a far better chance of wounding, even within the Plasma's rapid fire range, having him survive a round of close combat and then bouncing back for another round of shooting might be fun.



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Old 06 Oct 2006, 18:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

I think for a speed bump you'll probably want Iridium Armor for the 2+ save. Put that on a shas'el or even a vre along with some cheap assault weapons and hop in to stall stuff.

Another speed bump idea would be kroot, who can come in good numbers for cheap.
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 18:24   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

I've considereing meatshielding with the kroot and bouncing back and forth over a line of them, but they require that my opponent comes at me exactly the way I want, which isn't always reliable, which is why I've decided to focus on counterpunching, rather than out and out baiting. At least this way I know I can always react.

A secondary use I've thought of for this guy is to give him a twin and run them as part of a kill-team with piranha and vespid backup, should cause some misery for heavy infantry. I've just posted a 2000 pt list for review here: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=33079.0 with this setup in mind. The benefit here would be in an otherwise devilfish based force these guys could act as close support versus deepstriking troops (which I see a lot of) moving in to intercept while the rest of the army high tails it out of effective range of most assault weapons while keeping within burst cannon and sms range, and well withing Ion Cannon range. This mitigates some of the reactionary attitude associated with the counterpunch and lets me be a little more active.

Plus, if I'm going to pay for the privilege of running away, I'm going to make my opponent pay for making me do it. Kroot just don't have the punch I need to do that versus the heavy infantry I'm trying to work around.

I like the idea of a 2+ save though. How does the reduced assault move work with something like the vectored retro thrusters? Is there an effect there?
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 18:52   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

If the commander is deepstriking, you'll get a free turn of shooting at him and his friends before he can get into assault with you. What I would reccomend is having a very mobile firebase consisting of mounted firewarriors, crisis, stealth, hammerheads, and whatever else can move and fire to full effect. (vespids even!)

When the super commander unit of doom arrives, you can swamp it with your entire army if need be, or simply get out of the way if that's better. If the commander is the deathwing commander, running away is still possible. Use your skimmers as a barrier to assault; he has to RUN, ie he can't jump over things, while doing the assault move. If you plant a skimmer roughly 12" from the commander, he'll stop 1" from it, and then be unable to assault under or over it, only around. You can stop him in his tracks from assaulting vulnerable crisis or stealth teams this way.
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 19:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

You might want to change the the plasma for a CIB. The range is better than the Rapid Fire of the plasma, and its a lot more shots for less cost. It also occasionally makes an AP 1 shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_monkey
is it worth my while to assault the character with this Shas'O?

Also, if you do intend to charge into combat...you wouldn't be able to fire the Plasma and charge, so its really just wasting your points if you're going to charge.

Lastly, don't stick drones on. It make the commander a unit and costs him IC status which is what saves him from long range encounters.

Personally, I'd avoid assault altogether, but if you want to get into it, don't weigh yourself down with Iridium. If you can't hit them first, you're going to be hurting worse when they hit you first and get that extra attack adn you won't be able to jump very far away if you can't get to him to necessitate moving away.
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Old 06 Oct 2006, 20:39   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

I don't really intend to force the combat (ie charge in) but I fully expect and may in some cases want to be charged _at_ with this unit. If it's the necron lord I'm facing, kitted out the way it usually is, then one wound from this guy gets his points back right away, and there's a better than decent chance I'm going to get that one wound either from the fusion shot or any combat that takes place. If it's the dwing captain, not so much on the points front, but there's usually less wounds to worry about there.

Khaldun, that's pretty much the army I've got behind this guy (and potentially his twin) so the idea would be that the rest of the army maneuvers out of range of the big nasty and rains down hurt from afar in proper civilized Tau fashion, my Shas'O (and his twin if he's got one, and maybe a fusion piranha) stays put, or moves toward the big nasty to do cleanup work and tie anything left living up where it is, leaving the rest of the army to pursue their mission goals. I could even use the Shas'O and the piranha to screen a vespid squad if I'm up against the necrons. If I do screen with the piranha and Shas'O I'm thinking the vectored retro thrusters would probably come in handy, letting the group move off for another round of shooting.

As for the CIB, 1 yes is better than 5 maybes in my opinion. I'm trying to hurt heavy infantry (3+ saves and better) and the CIB, while the rate of fire will mitigate this, just doesn't pack the punch I need.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

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Old 06 Oct 2006, 20:53   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

First off, you can charge after firing your plasma weaponry.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to make your 6" assault move at all.

iirc, you count as stationary for the purposes of rapid fire weapons in a crisis suit, because then you also wouldn't be able to move and fire at 24".

As for the Stim Injector, a friend of mine uses a Shas'vre to great extent with the following:

Shas'vre:
Flamer, Airburster, VRT, Stim Injectors, Hard Wired tracker

Though it may not be the best for Deathwing and necrons, I say the more armour saves you make them roll, the better it is for you.

stim injectors and VRT aren't very good against Deathwing at all, because you'll rarely get to use either of them (except from their shooting), but against necrons, it'll be wonderful, since they have virtually no power weapons, and it gives you 3 free S5 attacks against those darn toasters!

Also, chances are with Necrons, they'll have Res Orbs protecting everyone, so fusion may not be the best.

Against the crons, take rail rifles, ion cannons on all your hammerheads, a couple broadsides for the occasional monolith, VESPIDS are a must!!

Kroot are an incredible pillbox unit. Hold them in a forest 7" in if possible, and shoot shoot shoot!

Always let them come to your Kroot. Make those little birdies a thorn in your opponents side. Force him to ignore them or to pour resources into them.

If he sends a unit after them, keep shooting, possibly let him charge you and then you strike first anyway!


Against deep-striking termies, use your ENTIRE ARMY to get rid of them. If you leave even 1 standing, it'll tear your lines apart. Trust me.

Assault with Kroot, assault with vespid, assault with crisis suits, assault with gun drone squadrons.
Anything to get more attacks in there if they're not dead from shooting.


Cheers,
Lawrence.
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Old 07 Oct 2006, 02:02   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Stimulant Injector and Tactics question

well, my idea wasn't to have your shas'o shoot as it was to have the 3 broadsides you've got sitting behind him do it. ;D Basically, tie him up and isolate him so that you can shoot him with whatever you've got.
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