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Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 17:33   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Posts: 20
Default Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

Ok guys something is pretty wrong here. Every game that I've played using my Tau I'm fairly sure I've lost. You might blame this on bad unit choices but when I let my friend borrow my Tau for a bit he says he played, and won, 2 games with it. And so I would like your help in giving some sort of tactical advice if possible, as well as revising my army list a bit.

1500 pts list, intended to fight SM (?)

HQ: Deep strike to take rear armor of tanks, and try to wipe out as many big-ish units as possible.
Commander squad
Shas'o
Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Shield Gen
HW Multi-tracker
HW Target-lock
HW 2 Shield Drones
Bodyguard
TL Fusion Blasters
Shield Gen
Bodyguard
TL Fusion Blasters
Shield Gen

Aun'shi

ELITE: Diversion / troopkiller
Squad of 3 Stealthsuits
Shas'vre with Markerlight
3x Shas'ui
Squad of 3 Stealthsuits
(No upgrades)
TROOPS:
Here comes another interesting thing. Apparenly my friend was making up some equations to find out the efficiency of units and Kroot are very efficient (in terms of points ie. kills per point value)

Squad of 7 FW with Shas'la+markerlight
Squad of 7 FW with Shas'la+markerlight
Squad of 8 FW joined by Aun'shi, no upgrades

Squad of 20 Kroot..

FAST ATTACK:
Nothing. Sometimes I might put in a squad of drones but they seem pretty bad for their cost.

HEAVY SUPPORT: Sit back and wait for the inevitable assault (I know this mindset is probably the problem but it seems as if I can never outrun everything in an opponent's army.)

Hammerhead (I just noticed now that a model can't have over 50 pts from the armory. Is this setup illegal or is there some exception?)
Ion Cannon
SMS
Target Lock
Multitracker
Decoy Launchers
Disruption Pod
4 Seeker Missiles

Squad of 2 broadsides
Shield Gen
Shield Gen

and another broadside
Shield Gen


My broadsides were able to defeat Lictor without suffering any wounds and take out the majority of a chaos something-or-rather (it had to be summoned onto the field is all I know). I haven't tried Kroot all that much but the only thing they did, other than being cannon fodder, was take out a Chaos lord ... which supposedly isn't that big of an accomplishment

I find the idea of a mobile Tau army intriguing. Do you recommend merging some FW squads and putting them in a transport? Maybe take out some broadsides? Take out upgrades for more troops?.. Also please tell me what you think of a Kroot's high 'efficiency' per point. I think perhaps the benefit of more shots (FW) would be similar to having more attacks (2 each for kroot).
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 17:41   #2 (permalink)
42
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

you have spent way too much points on hq.....make 'o an 'el in small points battle, get rid of target lock and shield generator (make use of ic rule). Take out both bodygaurd and put each one in a seperate elite slot, make them fireknife and leave anti-tank duties to broadsides NOT crisis, dont deepstrike them.

Take out aun'shi (read other threads on him)

buy some more fire warriors, make three squads of 12 if possible, dont bother with markerlights, keep troops mobile.

join stelth team together

add 2 devilfish for fire warrior squads.

keep kroot (nice!)

if you want to deep strike use gun drones to snipe vehicle back armour, id leave this to sides if i were you though

hammerhead has way too much stuff, take out seeker missiles, use these and pathfinders in larger points games, take out disruption pod.

broadsides config is good, make the two man squad have 1 target lock so both can fire at different squads (upgrade 1 to shas'vre for the extra hard point)

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Old 23 Dec 2004, 17:49   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petas
Ok guys something is pretty wrong here. Every game that I've played using my Tau I'm fairly sure I've lost. You might blame this on bad unit choices but when I let my friend borrow my Tau for a bit he says he played, and won, 2 games with it. And so I would like your help in giving some sort of tactical advice if possible, as well as revising my army list a bit.

1500 pts list, intended to fight SM (?)

HQ: Deep strike to take rear armor of tanks, and try to wipe out as many big-ish units as possible.
Commander squad
Shas'o
* *Missile Pod
* *Plasma Rifle
* *Shield Gen
* *HW Multi-tracker
* *HW Target-lock
* *HW 2 Shield Drones
Bodyguard
* *TL Fusion Blasters
* *Shield Gen
Bodyguard
* *TL Fusion Blasters
* *Shield Gen
First off bodyguards are a waste of points, especially if you have a spare elite choice left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petas
Squad of 7 FW with Shas'la+markerlight
Squad of 7 FW with Shas'la+markerlight
Squad of 8 FW joined by Aun'shi, no upgrades
maximum squads are a must against SM as they are such *an efficient army...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petas
HEAVY SUPPORT: Sit back and wait for the inevitable assault (I know this mindset is probably the problem but it seems as if I can never outrun everything in an opponent's army.)

Hammerhead (I just noticed now that a model can't have over 50 pts from the armory. Is this setup illegal or is there some exception?)
* Ion Cannon
* SMS
* Target Lock
* Multitracker
* Decoy Launchers
* Disruption Pod
* 4 Seeker Missiles
4 seekers on a single hammerhead = complete waste of points which could be spent on more troops...

plus you dont want to be sitting and waiting for your opponent to come to you, especially with a hammerhead, that is very mobile, you need to take advantage of that to get it in the battle sooner as that will take out a fair few with an ion cannon...

tactically i would play hit and run, but you seem to put your most expensive unit in the thick of it immediately, which imo is a bad idea, you need to use the advantage of a move in the assault phase, so they can pop in and out and take things out without being suspect to being blown to pieces from being placed behind your opponent, but if you do want to do the deep strike thing i recommend you ave a lone crisis doing that so it can take out any vehicles leaving the rest to support your main army so you dont get swamped by marines...

o yeah i forgot about a firebase, which is vital against SM, broadsides and fws taking shots continually will affect your opponent. The trick is to overlap 2 fire warrior teams so they can support each other... so also a narrow army is effective (dont spread them out to much)...
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 17:51   #4 (permalink)
42
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

as for tactics, you want a fire base - broadsides, 1 squad of fire warriors (add another later), and your unit of kroot to advance in front of this to make it an appealing lure and to tie up your opponent a bit before he reaches the fire abse (dont forget the kroot rifle isnt a bad weapon either). Let your opponent come at your fire base by making sure all your other units ar ehard to get at, keep crisis and stealth suits firing and moving away from charge range, do the same with the hammerhead and mounted fire warrior squads. With these depoly fire warriors behind the fishes but still within 12" of the enemy, then unleash 24 rapid fire shots and you will be safe from assault. Jump back in the fish on the next go and spped off to safety. Taje out tanks with sides its needless to say.

When your opponent is assaulting fire warriors, (there wont be much lef tof him), just maek sure all thats left is this assault force with your suits and get all other mobile units 10" or so away frrom the marines (so you cant be consolidated into), then when hes defeated the fire warriors just smash him to pieces now that all of your firepower has LOS and range.

With marines they will have few numbers and you should outnumber them, just try and bog them down with kroot before they reach your firebase (this is where they will go if you play sensible and hard to catch with suits and tanks), so when they do finally get to fire warriors and think , ' my opponent is so stupid, hes let me eat into his fire warrios and broadsides, waht an idiot' this will be the remennants of his army (its safe to leave stuff alive thats not heading for the firebase and concentrate on other tragets instead). After hes fiinished off your fire warrios and broadsides and taunting you iwth how easy it was he will then realise, 'oh dammit, my opponent has now surrounded me with all his units, hes still got a lot left, all of it has LOS and range to my marines....i shouldnt have been so cocky...(lol)' then its just a nice simple do what tau do best and pound him to pieces. The lure will work great and those fire warriors died for the greater good anyway!

Hope this has been of some use to you,
42
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 18:15   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

Thank you for all your input so far! I do have a few questions though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42
With these depoly fire warriors behind the fishes but still within 12" of the enemy, then unleash 24 rapid fire shots and you will be safe from assault. Jump back in the fish on the next go and spped off to safety.
I haven't ever used a transport before but how will this work? If I'm within 12", doesn't that mean he can move 6", assault 6" and still reach me? Or when you say behind the devilfish do you mean..

(Assaulting guys) ------> [ DEVILFISH!] (FW Squad)Wouldn't the transport block LOS? or not because it's a skimmer or something..

Also against other armies my opponent will know that my only chance to take out big targets (ie toughness 10) is with broadsides and tank, and will go directly for these 1st. An example of this is when I was against a chaos army, his daemon prince was down to 2 wounds but he was able to kill my tank and tie up my broadsides (right at the edge of the field) in CC (I took out all but 2 of them!! go broadsides!). My fire warriors were basically waiting in line to be killed by the daemon prince. Elites were trying to take out his predator, rhino, defiler .... (with all that big stuff he only had like 16 troops on the field , heheh)

Well thanks again for the input I'll try to think better next time I play XD
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 18:19   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

What he means is that the devilfish will drag the attackers into combat for your FCWs to make a hasty retreat. A skimmer is hard to hit and will most likely survive. As for guns dont let your troops stay idle. Also massed firepower can take out allot of things. Dont think your big guns are the only things that can drop big targets. A four wound model that is super strong cant avoid being wounded by 48 rounds of fire heading at it. It simple math. How many can it block? Not all certainly. Hehehe.
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 18:24   #7 (permalink)
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Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

sounds like your chaos friend is a bit of a powergamer! just keep suits and mounted fire warriors mobile and out of asasult, thats the biggest tactic i can give you, (and the best one ;D)
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 18:45   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

ok, that list is way too odd for me to specifically point out upgrades to drop ;D

HQ
Shas'el
-fireknife
>110pts
the shas'el makes exellent use of his good
BS with the fireknife combo and maintains consistency with his partner unit


Elites
Crisis team - 2
-fireknife
>130pts


Crisis team - 2
-fireknife
>130pts


Crisis team - 2
-fireknife
>130pts
good against marines while maintaining ability to kill rhinos (priceless ablility, limits amount of AT needed)

Troops
FW - 12
-Shas'ui
-bonded
-Devilfish
>220pts

FW - 12
-Shas'ui
-bonded
-Devilfish
>220pts

FW - 12
-Shas'ui
-bonded
-Devilfish
>220pts
mobility is the key, strike where thay are vunerable and strike hard and with everything you can

HS
HH
-Railgun
-BC
-MT
-DP
165pts

HH
-Railgun
-BC
-MT
-DP
165pts
theyre HH what are you asking about?

the key to this is to shock attack the enemy where his battleline is incoherent or lacking and bring 100% of your Dakka to bear on <or= 50% of his army. works well IMO as the crisi can pop almost all the transpoerts on the first turn along w/ the HH and then all tanks are mincemeat so you can outmaneuver and outgun him.
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 19:29   #9 (permalink)
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Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

drop a unit of crisis and add a 6 man stelath team then your sorted!
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Old 23 Dec 2004, 19:38   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Can someone tell me why I keep losing?.......................

you have no problems with the insane upgrades 42?
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