[Ka-No-Bushi]

Yet another noob-question...

It states (p. 50, 4:th ed. rules) that Characters (i.e. my Shas'o HQ) moves faster and safer than ordinary troops, and to illustrate this they have Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider special rules.

Does that mean that my Shas'o (since he would never actually ride ) has the Skilled Flyer special rule (like Vespids)? Since those skills on the characters are supposed to illustrate them being all that...

[AuinMyrrath]

If the model doesn't have the special rule listed, he doesn't have it unfortunatley. The special rules granted don't represent the Independant Character being "all that" in my mind - they represent him being just that, independant; it's alot easier for one guy to move through a log jam or avoid sinkholes than it is for a whole squadron.

[Dess]

Skilled Rider and Skilled Flyer are the same ability. So yes he has Skilled Flyer

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by Ka-No-Bushi

Yet another noob-question...

It states (p. 50, 4:th ed. rules) that Characters (i.e. my Shas'o HQ) moves faster and safer than ordinary troops, and to illustrate this they have Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider special rules.

Does that mean that my Shas'o (since he would never actually ride ) has the Skilled Flyer special rule (like Vespids)? Since those skills on the characters are supposed to illustrate them being all that...

The Shas'O, as an independent character, only has Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider special rules. They have nothing other than those two, by default. Any other further skills or abilities would be listed in the codex profile of the character or granted via another means.

The Shas'O does not have access to Skilled Flyer, in any way.

Originally Posted by Dess

Skilled Rider and Skilled Flyer are the same ability. So yes he has Skilled Flyer

No, he does not have Skilled Flyer. It's not a universal special rule, it's not listed as default for independent characters and the Vespid are the only unit in the Tau codex with Skilled Flyer special rules. The Commander doesn't have it, and cannot have it.

Cheers!

[Dess]

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

No, he does not have Skilled Flyer. It's not a universal special rule, it's not listed as default for independent characters and the Vespid are the only unit in the Tau codex with Skilled Flyer special rules. The Commander doesn't have it, and cannot have it.

Cheers!

Wait theres a difference between skilled flyer and skilled rider? How do they differ?

[LordDemon]

Originally Posted by Dess

Wait theres a difference between skilled flyer and skilled rider? How do they differ?

None practically:

Originally Posted by rulebook page 75

Skilled Rider
Model may re-roll the dice for Dangerous Terrain tests

Basicly they are same thing, like Fleet and Fleet of claw used to be. Shas'O Still get to re-roll Dangerous terrain tests.

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by Dess

Wait theres a difference between skilled flyer and skilled rider? How do they differ?

Yes, there's a difference.

Skilled Rider

- A universal special rule.
- Independent characters all have this universal special rule specifically.
- It is named specifically "Skilled Rider."
- If a skill is similar, but has a different name, it doesn't matter--Skilled Rider is the only skill that is universal and used on I.C's.

Skilled Flyer

- Specific skill only found in the profile of Vespid.
- Not a universal special rule.
- Only available to units which have it stated in their profile.

-- There is no rule basis nor support, that you may infer that two rules with completely different names, one being universal and one being specific to one unit in the codex are the same. They are not the same. Their in-game function has very similar wording, but it's not exactly the same and the access to the rules, are definitely not the same.

No independent character has "Skilled Flyer."
Only the Vespid have it.

One cannot just make a character have a skill that is not listed in their profile, or given to them by default through ind. character status if it is not written and it is not written.

[hr]

Now, before putting anyone at unease, the rules are specific in who/what has what. You cannot just assume one rule applies to another unit if it is not written.

[size=12pt]But don't dispair, the rules are still there for your Commander's benefit.[/size]

You can do the following, which is written:

Tau Commander has "Skilled Rider"
The rules of Skilled Rider state he may re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests.
-- When do you take Dangerous Terrain tests?
Page 17 tells you what a Dangerous Terrain test is.
Page 53 tells you that bikes moving through difficult terrain must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
Page 54 tells you that jetbikes sometimes must take a Dangerous Terrain test when moving through area terrain.
Page 55 tells you that jump infantry must take a Dangerous Terrain test if they end a move in difficult terrain.
Page 55 tells you how jet packs differ from jump packs, but still follow all other rules of jump packs, including Dangerous Terrain tests.

It doesn't matter how you trigger a Dangerous Terrain test. If you have the "Skilled Rider" universal special rule, you may re-roll a failed test. It doesn't matter if you don't ride a bike. The rules of skilled rider are universal and apply when a dangerous test is triggered.

-- Vespid have the rule "skilled flyer" which nearly the same. The only reason they have it, and it's not written as a universal special rule, is because GW made it "more flavorful" since Vespid fly. Also, you'll note that Vespid are the only jump pack unit in the game that have this skill. The only other jump/jet pack using units in the game that have access to a similar effect, are literally only independent characters who have a jump pack or jetpack. Vespid are special in this sense.

So you'll note, your Commander gets to re-roll his tests, even though he doesn't have Skilled Flyer. And the reason is because his Skilled Rider rule, which is written that he has always, does apply. Don't get hung up on the word "rider" as it has zero meaning. His Skilled Rider applies whenever a dangerous terrain test is failed; no matter what. But that does not mean he has Skilled flyer, as that is not written (even if it literally does the same thing, function wise in the game).

Cheers!

[Hadhfang]

also, i fail to see why you'd join him with a unit of vespids, as they can only move 6" a turn, taking one of their biggest advantages away...

[Freakiq]

Originally Posted by Hadhfang

also, i fail to see why you'd join him with a unit of vespids, as they can only move 6" a turn, taking one of their biggest advantages away...

Uh, the Vespid move as jump infantry, so they move 12" a turn and assault 6".

Unfortunately they can't jump back in the assault phase.

[CmdrBonesaw]

Mal, any chances you`re studying law? I hear explanations like this all the time (cause I am studying law).

"It looks the same, does the same, has the same outcome - but it is NOT, and I repeat, NOT the same thing!"*

But, of course, you are right, although I not 100% agree with your separation between the two skills (I really think they just gave the Vespid this cool "Skilled Flyer" rule because they didn`t want infantry running around with a "skilled rider" rule... may cause embarassment to some people... ;D), since they do the same, only the name changes (if the Vespid would have the "Skilled Rider" rule, would there be any discussion? I guess its similar to the "Fleet of Foot" and "Fast Flyer" (or whatever it is called in english) rules... two names for the same rule).

ANYWAYS - this discussion is completely useless, really, as I doubt that anyone want a real discussion about rules and the philosophy behind them (and we mustn`t forget that the rukes boys are NO lawyers, so they have little to no experience when it comes to things like interpretation, proper wording, of laws/rules, stuff like that - so a discussion about this makes little sense).

So, for the sake of arguments: The Commander IS NOT a skilled flyer, but he IS a skilled RIDER (although both rules have the same effect).

Man, I really dig the German rulebook - there it is just called "terrain familiarity"*

Game on