[Rogue_FireWarrior]

i could use some advice on how to best kill theese guys because when i play agenst a korne player i have a hard enough time shooting down thoose guys and then the blood letters come in and ive gotten swamted more ofter than not my kroot and drones usualy tie the korne beserkers up but kroot falling morale usualy wipes them out when they would have normaly desecrated a squad through their large # of attaks

[israfel420]

Khorne berserkers have to chage units within 6". Use Piranhas and force those berserkers to chase em around. Because they are skimmers, they are going to have a hard time killing them. Put Flechettes on em for more anti berserker fun.

This should divide his force up enough that you can deal with them piecemeal.

[PacoQuerak]

or gun drones, or devilfish, or any useless unit like 3 firewarriors yay!!

Basicly the general plan against close combat armies is taking into consideration how close a unit is to you in relation to that unit's speed. shoot whatever is going to close on you first and keep shooting it until there isn't anything left. if you split your fire on two units in charge range, and fail to kill both, then both will charge you, where as killing off on unit would save 1 unit and lose one unit instead of lose 2 units. yah dig?

[Deadnight]

Originally Posted by Rogue_FireWarrior

i could use some advice on how to best kill theese guys because when i play agenst a korne player i have a hard enough time shooting down thoose guys and then the blood letters come in and ive gotten swamted more ofter than not my kroot and drones usualy tie the korne beserkers up but kroot falling morale usualy wipes them out when they would have normaly desecrated a squad through their large # of attaks

first up. never use drones. they're not worth it.

second. remember the assault rules. if everything in base to base combat dies, and you fail your morale check, there's no break off test. there's no initiative roll off. you just fall back 2d6.

third. whats your army list? a properly thought out list will have no problem with blood angels, khornate, other tau etc. i'd like to know it so i can tell you what to keep, what to change, and what to do to use it right. now, he swamps you, so that tells me its an all out charge, right? proper deployment. a bit of mechanisation, and some decent firing discipline should eliminate them.

fourth. rely on tank shock. believe me. tank shock against demons rocks. a mate of mine took 3 hammerheads, a devilfish and a bunch of other stuff against word bearers. 7 demon squads. he killed most by tank shocking them.

tank shock is a -1ld morale check. what must demons do when they get hit with a morale check? instability check! at -1! the best anti-demon weapon in the game is a bloody tank on ramming speed!

add to that, with our vehicles, infantry have a very difficult time taking them down with the "only hits on 6s" rule, and generally, unless they're hitting the back armour, all they'll do is scrath the paint. all you have to worry about are power fists, but bloodletters dont get 'em. only daemonettes with their bloody rending should annoy you.

[O Y Montyr]

Some would argue that drones are indeed worth it - 12 point fire warriors with more accuracy and jump packs. Pretty good.
But even if they're not worth it, you still have drones from your vehicles to do this.

If a properly thougth out list would have no problem with another properly thought out list, doesn't this create some paradoxial problems? Scissors beat scissors?

As for tanks, don't try tank shocking Bloodletters. Tank shocking actually does not impart -1 to leadership, only if they're below have strength. 'Letters will not often fail an instability check, and most of the time you'll just end up wasting time. Just shoot them and be done with it.

Other daemons will, 2/3 of the time, pass the check. Overall, it's just not worth it.

Submunitions and normal fire warriors will work quite well against Daemonettes, Horrors, and Flamers, less so against Plaguebearers and much less so against Bloodthirsters. Treat those as MEq's and you should be fine.

[Deadnight]

Originally Posted by O Y Montyr

Some would argue that drones are indeed worth it - 12 point fire warriors with more accuracy and jump packs. Pretty good.
But even if they're not worth it, you still have drones from your vehicles to do this.

point for point, sure, but in terms of what you can do with them, not really. Deep striking is their only bonus, and even then, we've got stuff that does it better.

Originally Posted by O Y Montyr

If a properly thougth out list would have no problem with another properly thought out list, doesn't this create some paradoxial problems? Scissors beat scissors?

never tailor your lists against a specific opponent. a take on anything list is the best list in the game.

Originally Posted by O Y Montyr

As for tanks, don't try tank shocking Bloodletters. Tank shocking actually does not impart -1 to leadership, only if they're below have strength. 'Letters will not often fail an instability check, and most of the time you'll just end up wasting time. Just shoot them and be done with it.

explain. to the best of my knowledge it is at -1.

sure, guns help, but if you have an option and the ability to kill more in your movement phase, and you dont take it, you are an idiot. shooting phase comes after movement, and then you can shoot your guns. and if you cause some more casualties, its yet another morale check (hopefully now below half strength) which means another instability check.

Originally Posted by O Y Montyr

Other daemons will, 2/3 of the time, pass the check. Overall, it's just not worth it.

free wounds over 1/3 of the time. and more if you've pulled them below half.. then you get to shoot. trust me, its worth it.

Originally Posted by O Y Montyr

Submunitions and normal fire warriors will work quite well against Daemonettes, Horrors, and Flamers, less so against Plaguebearers and much less so against Bloodthirsters. Treat those as MEq's and you should be fine.

pretty true, but then again, if you've got a fast unit or two, or even an infiltrating unit that runs towards you, they get close, and then summon some daemons then right in front of you, they've got their assault and you can do nothing.

best thing is to shoot anything with an icon before the demons even arrive. if they do, shoot them and drive over them!

[Gramlin]

If you are about to get charged anyway, you may as well charge yourself.

If you can tangle up his units – after giving them a good blast – you might be able to move the others away in time.

Drones are good for this, as their assault weapons and higher initiative give them a better chance. Charge two of his units with one of yours, if it will mean getting as few models as possible in actual base to base contact.

You might like to keep some carbine wielding firewarriors around for the job too, and you already have the kroot.

It's worth sacrificing a couple of units to save the rest.

[PacoQuerak]

sorry let me clarify, i meant the free gun drones you get from your devilfish.
thanks for the tank shock idea deadnight, i never thought to use that one before.
Gramlin, the problem with your idea is that one, you have to charge the maximum distance possible in a strait lign into their unit, so you gotta set up your charge just right, and your not always gonna get that chance to charge, since they have a somwhat better movement ability. I say rappid fire, all the firewarriors in base will get killed, and you probobly will fail moral....It could work, but it would be better to rapid fire. and it probobly won't work

[Rogue_FireWarrior]

alright heres what ive got not list wise but as a whole

helios shas'o stims sheild gen hwmt

helios monat

fireknife monat

2 dakka dakka xv8s

4 stealths

12 fire warriors 6 w/carbines

1 sniper team

1 devilfish w/ 6man pathfinder team

1 modular hammerhead/skyray

12 kroot 2 hounds optional shaper

over 10 drones

ethereal w/ honnor guard of 12

1 piranna w/fusion

1 broadside

ps: my funds are low at the moment because i dont have a job and i'm saving up for a new computer.

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Originally Posted by Deadnight

explain. to the best of my knowledge it is at -1.

Tank shock imposes a morale check as you know, but only modified by:

"-1 If the unit is below 50% of its starting strength."

As par the rules of page 48.

Blood Letters are Ld10 (9 with the modifier if they're below 50%) so it's still very unlikely you will force a deadly instability test on them. It's more likely to work on Daemonettes, Plaguebearers, Nurglings, Furies, Flamers and Horrors, and screamers as they all have much lower leaderships.

Tank Shock is a fantastic way to push them back often times though. And the more vehicles involved, sometimes the better, coralling them in a specific direction if the terrain permits. Might as well throw Flechettes in as a possibility, though they're less useful against Blood Letters; but very useful against the other daemons who are attempting to gain ground via assaulting the vehicle.

Cheers!