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Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.
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Old 26 Aug 2006, 20:09   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 88
Default Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

I think that this post goes in this forum, but it may be more appropriate to the "Tau Army List" forum as well (although no list is included in my post). If this was mis-posted, my sincerest apologies and could a mod please re-locate as appropriate?

A friend of a friend is hosting a tournament in his mom's garage (ain't that always the way.....). He's a huge Imperial Guard fan, and has come up with some rather interesting rules for his tournament (some of which may be a bit...weighted...to favor his particular army methinks, but fun nevertheless). From what I've heard, he's a pretty fair guy to play with and he's problably not trying to rig anything.

Tournament Rules:

Total Points:

Special Rule 1:
Normal FOC limits waived (no FOC limits in terms of unit count) with the exception of a maximum of 3 HQ units. 0-1, 1+, and other codex limitations still in place though.

Special Rule 2:
Headquarters not to exceed 10% of total points (300 points maximum).

Special Rule 3:
Elites not to exceed 20% of total points (600 points maximum).

Special Rule 4:
FA not to exceed 20% of total points (600 points maximum).

Special Rule 5:
HS not to exceed 20% of total points (600 points maximum).

Special Rule 6:
Combined Elites, FA and HS not to exceed 50% of total points (1500 points maximum)

Gaming Table and Rules:
Cities of Death ruleset in effect, 6' by 6' (!!!) table (must be nice, hope we can reach our models without breaking crap) with a city area in the center and more standard terrain at the edges (so I'm told, haven't seen it yet). Matches will be one-on-one and two-on-two (exact scoring methods for two-on-two unknown to me right now). Games will be Gamma or Omega, with a modified number of turns (I think my friend said that we would add two turns to the basic number for the mission, including random game length, since the table is so freaking huge).

Forge World:
All Forge World models allowed, including super-heavies and flyers. Super-heavies do not count as a separate detachment, but are instead counted as HS for percentage of points purposes. Flyers are the same, but are counted as FA for percentage point purposes. Apparently this guy has a grip pf FW gear, including super-heavies and flyers. No clue as to whether he has a Warhound.

Me (Tau), My friend (Vanilla Marines), The host (Imperial Guard), His friend (Angels of Redemption - Dark Angels Chapter), possibly a veteran Eldar player and one additional possible player with an unknown army (have a Nid feeling from some comments made, but it's just a feeling).

With that out of the way, here's what I have to work with:
64 FWs with Pulse Rifles.
14 FWs with Pulse Carbines.
4 FW Shas'ui with Markerlights and Pulse Rifles
2 FW Shas'ui with Markerlights and Pulse Carbines
10 Standard Pathfinders
6 Pathfinders w/ Rail Rifles
3 Pathfinder Shas'ui
More Kroot than you can shake a stick at (upwards of 70 I think).
2 Kroot Shapers
4 Kroot Hounds
3 Krootox
19 Crisis Suits (3 permanently Fireknife, 2 Permanently Deathrain, one with a BC, FB and Shield Gen. permanently (I was new...), the rest fully magnetized.
6 new stealth suits (magnetized, BCs permanent).
6 old stealth suits.
Roughly 20 assembled gun drones.
9 Vespid & 1 strain leader.
9 Fish Chassis (1 permanently Ion/BC, 1 permanently DF/BC, the rest magnetized).
7 Piranha (6 magnetized for some reason, 1 Forge World permanently FB).
6 Broadsides (3 permanently SMS/Shield Gen, the rest magnetized).
2 Forge World Broadsides (magnetized).
1 Forge World Piranha TX variant (unassembled).
1 Sniper Drone team.
1 wrinkled bastard inna floating potty chair (it was a gift, OK?)
O'shaserra and Drone possee (unassembled).

I have the time and money for around $50 U.S. of new models if you can convince me I need 'em. Anything listed as unassembled can be finished and (poorly) painted by the time of the match.

My playstyle has heavily favored Mech in the past, but I've been experimenting with Hybrid lists since the new codex was released, so I can play either one no problem. I don't much care for total static lists, and I don't think I have the models for one at 3000 points in any case.

Suggested army lists, comments on the special rules and general tactical advice for a battle on a table of this size and scope would be creatly appreciated.

TauberAlles is offline  
Old 27 Aug 2006, 03:34   #2 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 526
Default Re: Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

Hmm those ruels do seem tiltied in favor of the Guard. Due to the fact that about half your army is going to need to be infantry.

I would recomend you take ALOT of kroot, as many as you can infact. Give them the sewrats stratagem so you can jump up and get into CC with some jucy units.

Besides that im not too familure with the citys of death rule set, although i think another stratagem is "rappeling lines" which alow you to put your mounted firewarriors on top of a building.

P.S As mentioned below, Seeker Missles would also be a good idea, use the pather finder's fish to put them on top of a building and launch those seeker missles Some rail rifles mixed with your path finders might also be a good idea.
Solourus is offline  
Old 27 Aug 2006, 05:03   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,336
Default Re: Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

Give them hell. Play with stuff that will take full advantage of the terrain (read: suits) Use the Pathfinder units to makerlight things and fire Seeker Missles at your enemies.
Originally Posted by Komrad
By the Holy Beard of the Prophet!
Tau Fanatic is offline  
Old 27 Aug 2006, 08:22   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 88
Default Re: Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

I've been afraid to use the Pathfinders in Cityfight so far (I've been playing maniple style, which is my name for very small fire warrior units on foot with a Markerlight Shas'ui). Do you think the Pathfinders will be worth it in close terrain? I imagine I can deny fire lanes and create fire-zones in the roads and courtyards well, and the Guard will suffer, but I'm not sure how heavy the DA player likes his army...I could be facing a Deathwing, for all I know (I hope not...not in Cityfight). If I do take 'em, maybe I'll throw some snipefinders in the squad(s) just in case.

Kroot are a great idea. To be honest, my Kroot are pretty dusty, as are my Kroot-herding skills. The guard will hate 'em, and they'll make great speed bumps for the Marines and the (possible) 'nids.

I'm really concerned about the Eldar player. He's supposed to be really good, and if he fields a bunch of skimmers I could get eaten. Almost glad for the HA cap there, but while that'll limit his Falcons, Wave Serpents can be pretty nasty too, and he can bring a grip of them with the lack of an infantry squad cap. The Kroot should come in handy there as well, particularly if he's infantry heavy. Scorps will shred 'em, but small Banshee squads may suffer at the hands of the Kroot.

If the last guy does play 'nids, and is Godzilla-heavy, I'll have a problem (winged tyrants will really chew through me if I'm not careful). I'm going to try and just tie up the 'fexes (if any) with small Kroot squads I guess.

I'm really tempted to field all my FWs in Fish, just to mitigate the danger of assault a bit. If I do that, I'll need to plunk SMS on 'em (what a great Cityfight weapon that is, seriously). Maybe two maniples and the rest in Fish?

As for the Crisis, I'm thinking Monats up the wazoo, since the FOC is out. That'd apply to Broadsides too, but I'm worried that they'll get lit up quick, fast and in a hurry, so I may leave them at home. Do you guys think that throwing a bunch of Monats in the list (six or so, maybe more) is pushing the envelope a bit, facial hair wise?

If I bring two or three DF's with SMS, and I end up bringing one or two PF squads, that leaves me with just two more magnetized chassis for Hammerheads, and an Ion Head with BC's glued in place. I could break the BCs of the DF and stick some SMS on instead, and that'll free up one more chassis, so tank-wise I'll have one Ion Head and up to three additional tanks. I'd make one a Skyray, but I'm so short on chassis right now I think that one more may be a must-buy (I'll pick up the 'Ray so I get all the options in the box).

Stealth teams are a must-have, in my mind, so I'm going to field all I have.

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I really need to talk to these guys and find out how competitive they are. if they are expecting a narrative-rich fluff-heavy game, and I bring my war face, I may look like a bit of a jackass, so I'll start my inquires tomorrow.

Any other advice, tips, warnings and whatnot would be greatly appreciated. I'm not an A-list player by any strech of the imagination yet, and I admit to being a bit nervous. Worried I'll be a pushover and worried I'll come off as a powergamer too. I do have a bunch of fluff for a smaller (less competitive and much more themed) army list I field, so I may end up expanding on that if they are more traditional gamers. If they're tournament types, I'm going to be bugging you guys for advice a whole lot in the next two weeks (tournament on the 16th and 17th of Sept.).
TauberAlles is offline  
Old 27 Aug 2006, 08:23   #5 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,409
Default Re: Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

Well, here's your Troops as I would suggest it. Everything's doubled up so if you lose one, you've got another to back up to.

2x 8 FWs, Carbines, Photons, Shas'Ui, ML, TL, BK

2x 10 FWs, Photons, Shas'Ui, ML, TL, BK

2x 12 FWs, Shas'Ui, ML, TL, BK, DF; 2x Seekers, DL, TL, MT, GDs

2x 12 FWs, DF; 2x Seekers, DL, TL, MT, SMS

And all that for 2 points shy of 1600.

First set is for a semi-mobile city-comber unit. Will be excellent in the dense terrain. Second set is more of a static firebase. Third set is to fly into the city, get rappelling lines if you can (don't know points cost) and plunk 'em on the highest buildings you can so they can see as much as possible and send seekers flying. Last unit is just a fast-response unit, maximum number of shots for FoF if needed, and good in the city terrain with the SMS. So there's all your FWs and 4 Fish.

I'm not gonna do the rest, but might I suggest splitting the Stealths into 3 units of 4, and using them all for the cityfight. I've use 2 units of 6 and they die too fast, 3 units of 4 seem to have better luck, esp. with a BK in it. Plus I know in CoD they will always be scoring unless they're dead. Just use 2 -25's and 2 -15's in each, so one doesn't look more powerfull than the others, unless you want a bait squad. (whether the opponent knows they're different or not, the human mind will automatically go for an all-25 unit, because they're bigger.)

Have fun, and I hope this helps!
orion549 is offline  
Old 27 Aug 2006, 22:49   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: Private (friendly) Tournament invite with some unique rules...advice needed.

If you really wanted to grow some facial hair, run a bunch of those monat suits, and all seven of your Piranha as single model units. Then they can all scatter or consolidate as need be. Place seekers on your Piranhas and get lots of those "maniples" as you call them.

One thing about the Piranhas, I think you'll want to run several of them without the fusion, and only put a TA on them. The reason is, those eldar skimmers and DA speeders are gonna be out in the middle at some point. When they are, the speed of the Piranhas should be good for maneuvering for a rear armor shot.

Plus, I like a 65 point Piranha with TA better than 40 point Stealth suit with TA. The reason??? Well, when you break it down, A Piranha with burst cannon and TA is the same as a 40 point stealth with TA, but costs 25 points more. But for that 25 points you get 24 points worth of drones. That means your paying 1 extra point and not getting stealth, JSJ, or infiltrate. Still isn't as good right? Not when you consider the speed of the Piranha makes it a more effective objective grabber and better at lending support where it is needed. Its speed makes it more effective at popping rear armor and allows it to drop its drones in the middle of the field early, without the inherent dangers of deep strike. Lastly, I'd rather have AV11 instead of stealth fields and a 3+ any day of the weak. After all, it takes a minimum of STR 5 weapon to hurt a Piranha and STR 7 are really needed to be even marginally effective. Stealth suits on the other hand can be hurt 50% of the time by STR 3.

I would definately rccomend getting some sniper drones. BS4 ML protected by stealths and rail rifles will do you proud. With this many points, I would consider running O'shasserra for her awesome LD boost, but only you run a bunch of suits and/or Fire Warriors.

The kroot with sewer rats will be good, but watch out for the nids guy doing the same thing.

As far as dealling with the Eldar guy, use a good helping of deathrains for those monats.

Sounds like you have a fun day of gaming ahead of you, good luck!!

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