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Guaranteed 1st turn assault?
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 03:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Was reading through that UK grand-tournament FAQ and came across something that immediately sent a few chills down my spine.

"Can a chaos lord with demonic speed deploy with infiltration?
Yes."

... So would this mean all the guy has to do is infiltrate his lord to 18 inches (even nastier if 12!) to get into our ranks on turn 1? (6" move, +d6" fleet, +12" charge = 19~24") If I understood this right... the question of course becomes "what the hell can I do to stop this thing?"

Besides "let whatever he jumped die and hope you can get a railgun slug past any inv. saves or cover" I mean
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 03:27   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Thats correct.
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 03:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Run? Fix the dice?

Or infiltrate your kroot 18" from the main battle line and spread out enough so they block that speed demon from infiltrating into your force and ripping you poor Tau to peices. Also have two squads of ten and place them about four-five inches apart to stop consolidating into other units.

Tau Captin he's asking what to do when that happens.
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 03:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

well not much you can do. It's one guy and he can go anywhere. Better hope that there is not infiltration.
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 03:54   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova
Was reading through that UK grand-tournament FAQ and came across something that immediately sent a few chills down my spine.

"Can a chaos lord with demonic speed deploy with infiltration?
Yes."

... So would this mean all the guy has to do is infiltrate his lord to 18 inches (even nastier if 12!) to get into our ranks on turn 1? (6" move, +d6" fleet, +12" charge = 19~24") If I understood this right... the question of course becomes "what the hell can I do to stop this thing?"

Besides "let whatever he jumped die and hope you can get a railgun slug past any inv. saves or cover" I mean
Correct,

Though this has been possible since the release of 4th edition (and has been used since then). I'm surprised you never encountered it if you play against any Chaos players routinely.

Here's a few things to note about this:

- It cannot be a model with daemonic stature (they cannot infiltrate); so no first turn monstrous creature.
- If he infiltrates and does not get first turn; unless he's behind other units, he's fair game to be shot.
- A smart player obviously will have him at least behind another unit.
- If you have enough concentrated firepower; you can take out that unit that is taking target priority.
- If you were able to tear his hiding unit away, and make him a valid target, things would be very nice for you.
- Don't count on that happening.
- The speed Lord doesn't even require luck to get into assault first turn.
- The minimum distance he will make, is 19" which is enough to get into your front lines of anything.
- The best way to stop infiltration, is with your own infiltration.
- Kroot can spread out and push the infiltration line away from deployment; this protects squishy infantry.
- Stealths can also help keep speed HQs from getting too close to your main infantry.
- Speed HQs are actually typically used to counter stealths; go figure.
- He can have up to two HQ's doing this to you; be prepared with more than one squad of Kroot.
- Chaos Chosen can do this as well, with several models. Infiltrating Speed Power Armored units.
- That will be rare, as the cost is beyond your imagination.

Honestly, your best defense is (A) terrain, (B) your own infiltrators. He will lose most of his speed if he tries to assault through terrain. His assault charge distances gets cut up if he tries to come at you through terrain, so try to manage your infantry in deployment to always have something in front of them if possible. And deny his access to your inner deployment zone, via Kroot infiltration, which deny him getting close. Sure, he can assault your Kroot first turn, but that's a great thing.

** If he assaults Kroot on first turn, that are deeply spread out, this is great. (1) It means, if he wins assault, which is likely, the Kroot cannot be run down if they're not in base to base, (2) which means they can break away, (3) which means that HQ is out of assault; or it your Kroot can be killed and swept in assault, (4) also meaning the HQ is out of assault now, (5) which leaves him open to your shooting phase on the following turn. (6) Dead HQ as he's vaporized.

Try to use your Kroot to push him back. Use small squads; force him to assault something he can beat, like Kroot, on his turn. He will be naked in the shooting phase, when your Kroot lose on his turn. If your Kroot survive on his assault phase, and stay in combat to die next turn--this will be very bad for you, as it will allow him to finish up assault on your turn instead, and then he's free to assault you on his next assault phase.

Deny tempo, or possibly give it to him. It's a gamble, but it can keep you alive and nail that character.

Cheers!
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 04:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Well, the chaos player I first played with (and play most often) uses terminator armour on his lord (aka "CIB/PR Shas'El target"), and the other one's basilisk-happy (iron warriors). So yeah, this situation's quite new to me (most people I play with are equally, or nearly as new...)

I do have a squad of stealths at all times as well as gundrones (though I'm rather loathe to use them for this), but I don't use kroot. Glad to know something with stature can't infiltrate though, I was under the impression all those demon-gifts were meant to break the usual limits on a unit.

I'll try spreading out a half-sized squad of drones to compensate for lack of kroot when I meet one of those psycho units. Still... wouldn't mind having a shooty equivalent to those kinds of options!
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 06:37   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: guaranteed 1st turn assault?

And if you play mechanized Fire Warrior teams and deep-strike your suits and drones, you can basically prevent him from having anything to charge when he arrives. In that regard, Tau are actually pretty good at mitigating this tactic, although we obviously have more to lose from it.
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 08:10   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Guaranteed 1st turn assault?

well gaunts have been able to do the 24" move in a turn thing too...

just shoot at it, if he crashes into your lines, back up the other squads so he can't consolidate into your other squads... then rapid fire him, pulse weapons will favour better than my poxy lasguns...
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 08:17   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Guaranteed 1st turn assault?

$ man units of gun drones can also be used, if your not mazing your fast.

Nothing to really stop it ,however, if you have infilltration then his guy is pushed back to his standeerd deployment and it's a scenario that is played out aganist assault marines alot.

On a side note, how can you be baskalisk happy with IW's, they only have accsess to 1 baskalisk.
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Old 23 Aug 2006, 09:28   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Guaranteed 1st turn assault?

Sorry; I meant Ordnance happy. Basilisk and 2 defilers (and either squad of havocs or a dreadnought) is what he sends. Doesn't actually use oblits though (doesn't own any yet anyawys).

However due to their slightly lower range the defilers are usually in a far less troublesome position. Gotta deepstrike to handle that 'lisk though; as innacurate as it might be, its still extremely dangerous. Easily railgunned if ever in LOS, but those things don't necessarily need to hit what he aimed at to cause severe damage. I'm sure everyone else has even more stories of "and then it scattered right into my commander" or worse, right?

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions on spacing things out: Its too bad vehicle drones can only be deployed once game starts or I'd just use those as a screen. SMS mostly on tanks/broadsides; 20 points for drones on those... 0 extra points on a devilfish... I'm not really expecting to face one of those speed lords just yet, but never hurts to be careful and know in advance.
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