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Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 06:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

Went to a local tourney and though the first three games went well for me I ended up losing game 4 and due to some dubious conduct fell out of the ranking for a trophy at the end. I will post a brief run down of what occurred and then await your responses. The games were Gamma with VP conditions and 1700 pts and yes not a single rail gun in my army

My army

2x Shas'el (TL:FB, TA)

2x Monat Crisis Suts (TL:MP, TA)

2x FireWarrior Team (12 men, bonded)
2x Devilfish

2x Pathfinder Teams (8 men, bonded)
2x Devilfish

2x Ionheads

2x Piranhas (2 seeker missiles each)

Game 1 was against an Ork player. A little controversary here, by turn 5 I had completely eliminated my opponent to the last model and he still wanted to count VP. I considered the win a massacre for me b/c he had no force left but the judge said VP was the win condition so after totalling everything up I won by like 2000 pts.

Game 2 was against Nids and I won the game with a solid victory and got hte 5 pts for the win. Nothing big here, nids go down pretty easy and take and hold

Game 3 was against Chaos Slaanesh which I won with a massacre result as it involved capturing table quarters

Game 4 was against the guy I was tied with for best general. He was playing a Dark Angel army composed of the following. His record at this point was 2 massacres and a solid victory for a total of 17 pts, same as me

1x Chaplain with 10 man command squad
1x Techmarine
2x Tac Squads (5 man plas, heavy bolter)
6x Ravenwing landspeeders
1x Land Raider Crusader
1x Predator Annihilator
1x Dreadnought

First turn I blew his annihilator up and wiped out a 5 man tac squad. The problem is he kept moving his landspeeders behind the landraider and said the landraider blocked LOS to the speeders. I didn't want to argue as he was pretty much a rules lawyer but found this battle was my most difficult and I ended up with a mighty defeat against me. It also didn't help that there was a lvl 3 piece of terrain that took up the middle of the board which limited my firing but I just had a hard time beating this army.

So with a record of 3-1-0 I still had a chance to win with best overall general which is a combination of painting, sportsmanship and your game score..well my opponent knowing I was his competition gave me like a 3 on my painting which was the deciding factor in his friend winning overall champion and me getting shut out. I was so pissed.....

As to my question, what tactics do you suggest in facing a Dark Angels army such as this or similar.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 06:58   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

I've never had this done to me, but large targets like vehicles DO block line of sight. However, it does work both ways. If LoS is blocked (if even part of a speeder sticks out... boom) then they should be entirely unable to fire at you, unless marines now (not that I'd be surprised....) have that same upgrade as Eldar tanks...

anyways, I hope you tanked his sportsmanship score if he started ruleslawyering the whole time...
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 08:16   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

land speeders are skimmers.

They can always be seen,think of them as lv 5 terrain.

good work. My best record was like 5-7-3
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 08:33   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

I know they can choose to hover over terrain. And I know they do not impede line of sight. But I'd really like to see a quote or page-number for that, Tpok... As far as I know they follow LOS rules like anything else.

I think you're thinking about flyers, not skimmers.

Like I said though: If the speeders couldn't be seen, then they couldn't see you either.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 08:35   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

If landspeeders were covered behind landraider, IŽd suggest some sort of flanking:

Tau have plenty of long range weapons. In your list crisissuit with missiles and Ionheads would propably be best. Try to get them on two different sides of landraider, preferrably far to the sides. This makes it very difficult to hide large nombers of models behind it, since propably atleast one of the shooters can see them. Also, since Ion heads can move 12 and shoot with MT, you could get in good position that way.

Last but not least, deepstriking suits can be really helpful, did you do this? One TL; missilepod behind the lines can cause serious havoc to those speeders.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 10:19   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

Quote:
Originally Posted by T pok
land speeders are skimmers.

They can always be seen,think of them as lv 5 terrain.

good work. My best record was like 5-7-3
What are you talking about? They can choose to hover over terrain, and can then be seen, but otherwise they abide by the same LOS rules as all other models (thus being height 3, since they are vehicles). The only difference is that THEY THEMSELVES do not block LOS for other units (unless wrecked).
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 12:35   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

Do you guys ever read the rule book? This is not flaming. You really need to read the rules so you don't go into a game and get abused.

First - TA on suits is silly. Putting TLFB on them is even more silly.

Second - To many troops in vehicles.

Third - You should have hidden from the last guy unil you could come out and mess him up.

Forth - Your two Ionheads should have killed all the speeders.

Fifth - Vehicle are all Cat 3. ALL VEHICLES ARE CAT 3. Skimmers without wargear can't end movement in terrrain and have to hover over it. If a skimmer is behind CAT 3 they can't be seen. CAN'T BE SEEN.

Also for anytime someone does something shady. If they can shoot you, you can shoot them. It doesn't work one way.

Ie If someone says can I see this unit from here? You say yes. Next turn you shoot back don't let them say you can't see them. They could see you.

Sixth - Don't run off numbered squads. Take four 10 man units instead of way you did it.

Seventh - I don't see any Markerlights. How did you shoot the seeker missiles?

Eigth - You had how many AP2 weapons? 2? Not enough. You had how many STR 9+ weapons? None. You can't do that in a game over 1000 points. People will bring Monoliths and Landraiders. Dont' count the FB's as your heavy weapons. Being 6 inches from the enemy will get you killed and FB's don't work on Monoliths.

If you had a Railgun you would have taken out his Landraider and his tactic wouldn't have worked. Well if he was firing over this Landraider he was cheating. I hate cheaters.

I will end with this. You really need to know the majority of the rules. I rarely get cheated. If someone tells you about a power they have in their codex that sounds crazy ask to see it. There is nothing wrong with it. "Can I read that in the codex please, I just want to understand it as it's written."



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Old 22 Aug 2006, 13:14   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

Is this category stuff part of the 4th ed, or is it tourney rules or what? Yeah.. I only have 3rd, but if you could tell me, that'd be cool beans yo.

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Old 22 Aug 2006, 15:01   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
2x Pathfinder Teams (8 men, bonded)
2x Devilfish
He had ishtons of Markerlights, how did you miss that? I hate you TauCaptain, but I have to respect you succinctness:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TauCaptain
Do you guys ever read the rule book? This is not flaming. You really need to read the rules so you don't go into a game and get abused.

Well if he was firing over this Landraider he was cheating. I hate cheaters.

I will end with this. You really need to know the majority of the rules. I rarely get cheated. If someone tells you about a power they have in their codex that sounds crazy ask to see it. There is nothing wrong with it. "Can I read that in the codex please, I just want to understand it as it's written."
You had some excellent one-liners in there: "Well, if he was firing over his Landraider he was cheating. I hate cheaters." Have to respect that...

Anyway, as far as general army advice goes, I'd have to go with TauCaptain here: you've got to have some railguns. There is simply nothing you can do about the stray monolith or Land Raider with Fusion Blasters: if the Particle Whips or Hurricane bolters don't chew wounds from you by volume of shots, their heavy weapons will insta-kill you. You have a very mobile army that you make work (very respectfully, I might add), but a couple of Broadsides (taken individually), one on each flank, couldn't hurt. I say Broadsides instead of Hammerheads, because Broadsides hit more often. Maybe a couple of shield drones for each so that they don't get vaped turn one (which is what I do).

As far as fighting Dark Angels, I can't say too much. Having plenty of S7 weapons on the board helps, as all those Land Speeders will nuke your infantry in a hurry (that includes all your Crisis Suits, as you will be forced to make too many saves that 3+ armor won't save you from). The volume of fire that the Land Speeder can generate simply can't be ignored: the last game I played, three Land Speeders (I killed one, he took four) bore down on my main firebase. I had 24 Fire Warriors, 4 Marker Drones, and 11 Vespids there. He had one round of firing. Within minutes of the dice rolling, my infantry firebase was nearly cut in half, and he didn't even roll on odds. I could have downed, or at least slowed, the Landspeeders with my Broadsides, but I wasted their firepower on a Venerable Dreadnought (bad choice there). I still ended up winning the game, but neglecting the Land Speeders nearly cost me the game, because after my infantry came my Sniper Drones and my 300+ point unit of Broadsides.

My 2C.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 15:54   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Went 3-1-0 but need some advice....

That is just about the cheesiest dark angels army I've ever seen... and I've seen cheese! Oh well, I guess it's a tourney, so such things are to be expected.

It's personal preference for me, but I go one ion and one railhead in games of 1500 points... 1700 it's a tossup if I'd go for a 3rd.

The FB piranhas actually work pretty well against things like land raiders, but land raiders guarded by land speeders make the prospect of fusioning the thing suicidal.

I don't know how well two pathfinder teams worked for you, (and I'd love to see batreps on any one of your battles) but dropping a team for a railhead or more piranhas might be a good idea, depending on how well the pathfinders did.

A bs 5 fusion blaster IS going to hit... the twinlinking really doesn't improve it so much. Try for a bs 5 helios commander instead (plasma/fusion) as he can hit tanks and squash toughies too. Because of how relatively slow crisis suits are, equipping them with fusion blasters and running them forward is going to either take too long or get shot up in the process.
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