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What Do You Think of the Vespids?
View Poll Results: What do you think of the Vespids?
They're so-so. I use them sometimes. 7 15.91%
They're so-so. I use them sometimes. 21 47.73%
They suck terribly. I never use them. 16 36.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19 Aug 2006, 19:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Alright guys, I've got another poll. I did some searching and didn't find any topics specifically about the Vespids, so I decided to start one. I noticed a lot of people around here don't seem to care for the Vespids too much, even after all their hype. This led me to start another poll.

Please vote, and also please post your thoughts about the Vespids: if you use them, how you use them, general impressions, success or failure with them, battle examples, etc.

I'll start. I've used the Vespids I guess 4 or 5 times, all before the summer (all my friends moved away from school for the summer, so I haven't played in a while). I feel the potential, the rules on paper, for the Vespid is awesome, but like Kroot, they take some tactical finesse to use properly. I usually use them in one of two capacities: either to preemptively shoot and charge a unit to protect my firebase, or to shoot and melee (and so tie up) a unit. Tieing up units in combat seems to be this unit's specialty; as long as the rolls are average, a Vespid unit can shoot a unit of Marines, charge it, and tie up said squad for the rest of the game; it works as well against Devastators as Assault Marines (although the Assault Marines would probably win out, it wouldn't be before they wasted several turns with the Vespids.

So far I have had mixed results with them. They do certainly tie up units; I tied up a unit of Genestealers with them for an entire game once, and I've also inflicted some heavy casualties on Marines. However, they almost invariably get shot at and cut down by a few before they reach their objective; because they are not Kroot and don't have a flood of shooters (but rather, a few very powerful shots), every lost man counts. At the moment I'm using them every game so I can get practice with them, but if they continue to prove to be lackluster, I'm sticking my Kroot back in.

Thoughts?
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 19:29   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Vespids, IMHO, are not worth either the fast attack slot or the points. Whereas they can do (some) damage, this is only against MEQs, and only at a very close range. Marines will take heavy retribution upon them - and to truly make their worth, each one must take down the points of a marine.

Not worth it.
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 20:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

but, their speed can be used to take objectives in the last turns, and in COD they really make their points back as most games require holding building and they need to be reduced to less than 25% to not be a scoring unit,

also as most COD games don't use VP's they are usefull 8)
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Old 19 Aug 2006, 21:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Vespid tactical effectiveness all depends upon terrain, the type of army you are fighting, and the type of army you use.

Against a stand and shoot army, they are nearly worthless.

Against an army of fast assaulers, they are worth their weight in gold.

When placed with a static army, they are invaluable athey can stop those fast assaulters.

Their effectiveness in a pure mech army is a little more suspect, since their main purpose is to stop incoming threats and a mech army simply redeploys to answer incoming threats.

In CoD they really come into their own as their high mobility, high Ld, and skilled flyers rules allow them to take advantage of the high density terrain and the 25% rule.

I've found that if you are gonna use em, use a full squad of 11 and try to soften up whatever target you send them after first. This way they have a greater chance of killing the unit outright after they shoot then charge. And always, always, always use 2 markerlight hits to up their BS to a 5 before you commit them to anything. Chances are that they will only get one round of firing, so make it count. If you do, you will find them highly effective and able to not only earn back their points, but save your static elements from certain assaulty death.

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Old 20 Aug 2006, 00:17   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Israfel has it;

Vespids make poor response teams when faced with stand and shoot armies, but are excellent at stopping the jetpack assault marines. However, mech armies can simply avoid assault marines most of the time, or counter them with kroot more effectively, and so vespids aren't really all that useful. However, a static army would appreciate vespids rapid response movements to halt incoming assaulters and to take table quarters.
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Old 20 Aug 2006, 01:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

What do you mean a search didn't reveal anything?

Helio wrote an ENTIRE TACTICA on the Vespid! It is here;
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=28155.0

Someone also asked about vespid;
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=28923.0

Personally I have never used Vespid, but I think they're a lot more than what people moan them to be. They are water balloons with brick launchers- they do a lot of damage but are very weak.
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Old 20 Aug 2006, 03:12   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

To me, vespids are a very, very, VERY poor man's assault marines. Each has the AP to take out the other, one will strike the other first (usually) but lacks leadership and has far less weapon skill and wounding ability in assault.

The main difference is in what they can do with OTHER UNITS. Vespids are nice if you're facing assault marines, sure. But so's a couple of plasma-equipped suits or an ionhead (cheaper fully loaded than a full vespid squad anyways, that tank).

"rush in and finish'em" is something crisis suits excel at. Its something drones are good for, devilfish are good for, piranha are good for, stealths are phenomenal for if its not too heavily armored... Do we really need something that expensive and fragile doing the same job if we have a few units that could do it even better or safer (like ionheads)?

Acceptable if playing marines or spiky marines. I'd be quick to say barely worth half their points in any other matchup.
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Old 20 Aug 2006, 05:50   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Yes they are expensive and work really against 4+ and mainly 3+ units but their Fleet and skilled flyer make them excelent assualt troops and reaction troops for the Tau.
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Old 20 Aug 2006, 07:14   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

On their own they aren't much good, but add that fire power to an attack on brood of Nid warriors, or genestealers with extended carapace, or any of those annoying models that tau's guns don't beat on saving throws, and couple that with the fact than they effectively have a 24" range with their jump move plus their guns range, and in fact they can be just the ticket for tipping the balance for the firewarriors.
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Old 20 Aug 2006, 08:05   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: What Do You Think of the Vespids?

Are they really so good for rapid response? Rangewise drones do just as well, better in some ways (move+range also gives 24, but they get an extra 6" after firing with the jetpack). An Ionhead gets just as much movement if the vespid were to fire, and while it will get less AP3 shots out at a given moment, 2/3 of them will hit and their range is 72 when movement is added in. Plus its front and side are immune to lasguns and regular bolters...

My reason for asking though is the SOBs. I haven't fought any yet but can't help but wonder if vespid would really work here: Sure the neutron blaster does well against one... but those flamers can very easily return the favor, not to mention those little 'faith' moves of theirs could easily ruin the response.
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