[Gramlin]

Though every game is different, similar things do crop up sometimes. Most of my games are against 'Nids, and I notice that very often I am left with a couple of Carnifex that I haven't bothered shooting and they sit on the objective and I haven't enough turns left to shift them.

There are good reasons for this, pressing reasons, but it leaves me wondering if these lumbering oxes should take higher priority.

So what, in the mythical "typical" game, according to your own experiences, tends to be the order in which 'Nids get killed in your games. What worked? What was less good?

[Bash]

I've found that the temptation to fire off Railguns at Monstrous Creatures worked very much against me...it's better to reposition and take out a horde of Genestealers than maybe take a Wound off that big fex. If I'm taking an objective that one holds, well, then I have to focus my fire and do a Fist of Bash attack (which is like a mass FoF)...but generally, I guarantee that there's no little bugs between me and the objectives.

Keep your powerful units alive until then...don't sacrifice them to cause extra damage, however tempting. Remember how many models are in those little bug squads- just bring them one below half and they're useless for objective-taking. Don't be scared of the big bugs.

[Gramlin]

Thanks, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for, though the fact I've always got 'Fexes to face at the end says I'm doing something similar, they aren't my first targets by any means. But you are right, it's the timing, not having enough to take my own objectives at the end.

What do you think about shooting synapse over the little bugs?

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by Gramlin

So what, in the mythical "typical" game, according to your own experiences, tends to be the order in which 'Nids get killed in your games. What worked? What was less good?

Well, as you put it, that's hard to really tackle in a general sense, because so many different variants of the Tyranid force sits across our individual tables. However, I notice some trends of my own, so I'll take a stab in the dark, but with two examples.

First off though, all the following is assuming there's enough Synapse on the board for it to be pretty much not worth you wasting time to attempt to break up synapse. Most of the threats are non-synapse dependent, so it's not a big deal. However, for the rare instance that you're playing a bad-bug-player, with low Synapse but high counts of models that absolutely must have Synapse, then of course, gun down the synapse network--again, this should be extremely rare, so it's not accounted for.

Typical Bugs (only for me though):

#1 - Genestealers (if Infiltrating) & Hormagaunts (always)
#2 - Hive Tyrant (if Winged)
#3 - Warriors / Raveners / Ripper Swarms
#4 - Mostly everything else

"Other" Bugs (again, only for me):

What I mean by Other, is that these are not typical and generally are either all-genestealers, or all-monstrous creature (Godzilla). I see them often enough to take note, but they're straight forward.

#1 - Genestealers (if Infiltrating)
#2 - Hive Tyrant (if Winged)
#3 - Ripper Swarms (only if they pose assault threat)
#4 - Genestealers (usually small broods if Godzilla)
#5 - Carnifex, Hive Tyrants on foot

It's straight forward why, probably, so I'll leave it at that.

I will make a note though, about something:

Most of my games are against 'Nids, and I notice that very often I am left with a couple of Carnifex that I haven't bothered shooting and they sit on the objective and I haven't enough turns left to shift them.

This is very true. We often unprioritize the Carnifex because we're busy with immediate threats. We cannot really change that since we are hopeless to deal with a Carnifex later, if we're in assault early on and stuck there the rest of the game, if we even last that long. If you're playing more of a completely mechanized force, this is of course different, but for Hybrid players or anyone with infantry on foot, this is a big deal.

Anyhow, as off-base as it may seem, the Godzilla (Mass Monstrous Creature) Tyranids are one of the armies that you can really benefit from having Seeker Missiles from. We tend to forget about them, especially since they were nerfed in terms of how many we can take per vehicle in our codex update. However, the seeker missiles fill a very crucial weapon slot in the fight against large bugs in the Tyranid list (assuming you're not facing 2+ saving Carnifex, which for me at least, doesn't exist since players are focused on having more big bugs and not just a few super big bugs). Again, useless against 2+ saving Carnifex/Tyrants, but otherwise, it's fantastic for me.

The only reliable ways we have to put wounds on Carnifex/Tyrants (on foot) towards the end of the game is limited. We have the Fusion Blaster from the XV8s and possibly from XV25s. Fusion puts a solid wound on a Carnifex. Plasma doesn't cut it due to limited Strength only giving us a wound 50% of the time (that's not good enough) and it costs more to boot. Railguns are obvious, but not even 4 Railguns are enough in those last turns, and that's if you even had 4 to begin with. Everything else is a shot in the dark with lady luck. But not if you use Seeker Missiles.

You can get markerlights all over your army. You can get seekers on vehicles. It doesn't take much, but 4x seeker missiles will hit, wound and remove a whole Carnifex with just 4 missiles typically (unless they are claiming a cover save of some kind, then it may take 5). That's not a bad deal. 40 points to remove a scoring carnifex. Taking a few missiles costs you points, but having the ability to remove Carnifex right away, at any point of the game, from 36" away and not have to wait on Fusion to get there, works. It's a great way to supplement the Railguns you already have in the force, so lighten their load in terms of pressure per turn of shooting down big bugs. Slap two wounds on a carnifex from the Railguns, and finish it off with two seekers.

If you're having trouble with late game Carnifex removal, try seekers. You may be surprised.

Cheers!

[Fish Ead]

This I how I like to play it.

1) Stuff that is about to hit your line

2) Stuff that'll hit your line in a couple of turns that you want to out a few wounds on so its easier to take out when it hits target priority #1

3) Shooty stuff. Just because tau have units with ridiculous amounts of firepower doesnt mean the enemy wont either

4) The rest

[Gramlin]

Thanks for your responses.

So far I concur with this. Those flying tyrants demand attention, and seem much more killable than Carnifexes.

Genestealers must not be allowed to charge, and until recently I only suspected this, as I never let them do it, but last game two got through and it was bad news.

Oddly no one's mentioned Gaunts. I always face many of these, and they present a dilamma, because they aren't worth killing but they will stop me shooting when they charge, so they have to be killed, which takes a while seeing as they are more stubborn than a dead dog when in synapse range.

I have neglected seeker missiles. I'm always getting tanks blown up by glancing hits, which is statistically wrong, espcieally as I always take Decoy Launchers. But that's my experience. I've never had enough missiles, they've all been destroyed. I will experiment with these. I've got three tanks, inc. Devilfish, so in theory I should be able to bring enough.

Killing the likely assaulters seems like a good plan at the beginning, it's the heavies later on that pose the trickier problem, so working down the list brings me up against Carnifex sooner or later. I'll try to plan for that next.

Any other ideas anyone? How do I keep my seeker missiles in the game unitl the end...? Launch them sooner, for some vehicles, perhaps?

Best,
Gramlin

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Originally Posted by Gramlin

Oddly no one's mentioned Gaunts.

How do I keep my seeker missiles in the game unitl the end...? Launch them sooner, for some vehicles, perhaps?

Hormagaunts are #1 on my typical list; as you'll read above.

As for the seekers, remember, you don't have to try to use them last. If the removal of a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant is possible on turn one, what's to stop you from unleashing 4 missiles upon them? That's a great way to steal tempo from them as they think you would have been worried to shoot them late game, but when removal can be instant like that with seekers, you don't have to wait. You're not losing tons of resources by doing it either. The seekers fire separate from vehicles, even when stunned, so you're not losing your vehicle's targets (their priority). And you only need 4 hit markerlights (8 total on average) to pull off the seekers. That's hardly subtracting from your list, if you have a unit of Pathfinders, or even a few markerlights with target locks on Shas'ui in Fire Warriors teams. Again, all those sources are separate from the rest of the shooting, so you're not losing priority worthy shots; instead, you're simply using lights to help remove a carnifex. If your skimmers won't last the game, then use the seekers right away--nail a big bug. The whole time, continue to focus on what's in front of you, since seekers don't involve the use or loss of a single gun (you're just throwing lights and invisible seekers here).

Cheers!

[Gramlin]

Yes, I suppose on turn one I would have markers to spare, though they get useful for other things as the game goes on.

Next game Ill try what you have said. So many people have a low opinion of seekers, but like so many things in the Tau army (Ethereals, Markers, Low CC stats, kroot's poor armour, certain battlesuit support systems), looks are deceiving, it seems.

Cheers

[Impulse]

I found DSing a team of Helios Crisis (plasma + fusion) will take care of most 2+ save Godzillas (That's 9 AP1-2 shots at 12"). However, many will (including me) consider that a risky manouver as that is almost always a sacrificial unit.

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by Gramlin

Yes, I suppose on turn one I would have markers to spare, though they get useful for other things as the game goes on.

Next game Ill try what you have said. So many people have a low opinion of seekers, but like so many things in the Tau army (Ethereals, Markers, Low CC stats, kroot's poor armour, certain battlesuit support systems), looks are deceiving, it seems.

Cheers

By all means try.

Seekers are not a competitive thing to use, typically. And I say that as a big fan. But I admit they're not nearly as splendid as a simple IonHead is. But, specifically against an army that uses Carnifex, seekers can be immensely useful. Seekers do not perform super well against most opponent types anymore, with the nerf of the amount of seekers we take per skimmer (before, it was pretty nice having seeker salvos on turn one). But that was nipped in the butt, two fold. Now, not only are there less seekers, but to make it worse, we don't even have the Devilfish (according to the FAQ thus far) on turn one in escalation matches; making that useful first strike so beautiful (instant removal of something very dangerous), not even possible now. Now, it takes a lot more coordination to work in seekers, making it less and less attractive to use seekers (on top of the fact that most players weren't bothering with them to begin with before the nerf).

They work in some instances still; this just happens to be one of them.

On that note, don't forget how useful an IonCannon is. That's a relatively reliable way to put 2 wounds on a Carnifex or Tyrant every turn, after moving 12". Two IonHeads on turn one can knock down a Carnifex, while allowing the burstcannons or SMS via targetlock to hose some close range nasties. Railguns are priceless, but there are means to do the same job elseware.

Cheers!