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Substitute Models
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 20:42   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Substitute Models

Hello,

I'd really like to include some sniper drone teams in my list, but I'm not that thrilled about the models. I'd like to use the Pathfinder w/rail rifle models to stand in as the drones w/rail rifles.

Looking at the stat lines, they're very similiar.

If your opponent put them on the table and gave a brief description/explanation of the model subsitutes, would you mind?

Thanks.

Scott
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 20:58   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

I wouldn't mind at all, as long as they used the same statline. In fact, I think that's a cool idea, especially if you somehow converted stealth fields onto them.
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:09   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_K
Hello,

I'd really like to include some sniper drone teams in my list, but I'm not that thrilled about the models. I'd like to use the Pathfinder w/rail rifle models to stand in as the drones w/rail rifles.

Looking at the stat lines, they're very similiar.

If your opponent put them on the table and gave a brief description/explanation of the model subsitutes, would you mind?

Thanks.

Scott
Heya Scott,

Well, I would say go for it. What's stopping you? After all something to pay considerable attention to, is that on page 31 of your codex, all the rules for Drones of all types are explained. In those rules, you'll find that their unit type is very clearly written as being As owner. That means, they are the unit type of the controller, unless otherwise stated. Drones, in general, do not have a universal unit type. They specifically just take on the unit type of their controller. The sole exception to this, are the Fast Attack independent Gun Drone squadrons. They specifically state that they are Jump Infantry (jet pack) in their unit type. However, they're the only Drones with this unit type listed.

All other drones will take on the unit type of their controller. So if your Drones, of any kind, are controlled by a Sealth Suit, Crisis, etc, then they will be considered Jump Infantry (jet pack) just like them. However, it's critical to note that when Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Snipers, Broadsides, etc, all take Drones, the unit type of the Drone is that of the controller. If the controller is of unit type Infantry then that is very important to note. It means, those Drones do not behave any differently than Infantry as a unit type.

It's important to know, because only models with jet packs may perform certain moves in assault.
And it's important to know, because if a unit of infantry with drones were to have drones that counted as anything other than infantry, it would have serious consequences on Escalation matches.

The Sniper Drones are infantry par the rules of the owners unit type.

So, I would see no reason, that you could not field Rail Rifle pathfinder models in their stead.

Cheers!
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:23   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

My short answer is no. It's too much effort to remember which models represent which other models, and I don't feel a person should try to substitute a model for another because "they don't like the way it looks". If they don't have the model then they don't have the model.
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:27   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

I dont think it's confusing when the models in question are converted so they stand out. Then when you look at them, you remember what they are.

For example; I simply used fw models without shoulder pads, and loads of extra gear, as pathfinders. Because they stand out from my regular fire warriors, people have no trouble remembering what they are.
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaldun
For example; I simply used fw models without shoulder pads, and loads of extra gear, as pathfinders. Because they stand out from my regular fire warriors, people have no trouble remembering what they are.
Well, I'd let someone do something like that. Substituting units for others that look a lot alike is no problem as long as they have some items and wargear that stands out (like you said). And usually it's a creative idea to save money (ie $2.90 firewarriors in place of $5.00 pathfinders). However, when you get down to things that look nothing alike, it gets to be a little too much effort and just looks weird.

I would let people do normal conversions/substitutions if the models had enough in common (firewarriors+pathfinders, space marines+terminators, etc), just not models that had almost no common resemblance towards eachother.
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:39   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

As long as you don't also use railrifles with your pathfinder squad I'd have no trouble with this subsitute. Like has already been mentioned the PF with rifles are similar stats-wise and ability-wise to Sniper drones, and the idea that a central markerlight would spot for a collection of snipers isn't too far-fetched for the support-oriented Tau if you consider the Marines do it now.
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 21:40   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
However, when you get down to things that look nothing alike and have a lot of different rules like drones and foot soldiers, it gets to be a little too much effort and just looks weird.

I wouldn't let someone do the drone thing as pathfinders are on their feet (not jetpacks), and they don't look anything alike. I would let people do normal conversions/substitutions if the models had enough in common (firewarriors+pathfinders, space marines+terminators, etc), just not models that had almost no common resemblance towards eachother.
So then,

Please do explain how the rules of the Sniper Drones are different than Foot Soldiers, in terms of the unit, in terms of the jet pack (or the absence of it), etc.

Your opinion is totally fine, but the bolded section above, is what I have interest in.

Cheers!
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 22:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

Wow.... I'm gettin' mixed signals from my mind. My mind's thinkin' snipers count as jump infantry but my eyes are seein' they don't. Wow.... need to get around readin' my 'dex more often.

MalVeauX always seems to get something right. At least I wasn't too far off this time. :P
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 22:39   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Substitute Models

Sorry all, I forgot to mention that I have no Pathfinders in my army because I want to eliminate as much confusion as possible with which model is this and which model is that. The only models with rail rifles in my army would be the drone-substitute Pathfinder w/rail rifle models

Scott
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