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Are 2 or 3 Skyrays cheesy?
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 22:56   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Are 2 or 3 Skyrays cheesy?

Has anyone ever fielded 2 or 3 skyrays and unleased almighty missile hell in the first turn couple of turns.
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 23:24   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

That would be quite a gamble. You would have 18 SMs. However, unless you have 18 MLs all hitting, that would quite hard to accomplish, right? Anyway, this is only good for 1st turn strikes.
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 23:31   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

Just from looking at the profile (I have never fielded a Sky Ray before) I would say that, if you are willing to dedicate a large part of your strategy on the application of markerlights then it would be excellent, but the risk involved would not make that cheesy. If you have 2 Sky Rays that means you have 12 Seeker missiles to fire, which is 2 turns' worth if you have a unit of Pathfinders in good position. Eight shots, half hit, launch four missiles, and the Sky Ray's own two shots, half hit, for a fifth missile. This also leaves you two missiles for miscellaneous use for the rest of the game.

You are essentially spending 125 points for six missiles and two markerlights (available in two pathfinders for 24 points, meaning you are spending 100 points on six missiles mounted on a Hammerhead chassis) so the cheese factor is minimal. I think this would be an unwise move except possibly against an enemy army laden with tanks, because then you are also paying for the ability to use those missiles on many different targets in the same turn. Two units of pathfinders, each with three rail rifle/target lock combos and five markerlights per turn can bring down two to three missiles on two targets each, plus the Ray itself firing another missile at a third tank with good odds to destroy it. Three Rays is overkill in almost all situations, I would bet. Particularly since that's all three Heavy Support choices, and you're better off getting other excellent Tau Heavy Support choices.
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 23:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

I would have to say no.

If it was cheesy and worked so well, you would see a lot of internet lists floating around about these "first turn ultra salvo" weapons.

The truth is, Sky Rays are support vehicles. Taking too much support in Tau, and not enough hard hitters that function without help so much, is how a Tau army stalls itself with little to do. The skyray is a hammerhead chassis, but it's not a hammerhead in terms of output. Seeker Missiles only fire as fast as markerlights hit. That's less accurate overall than just firing an Ion Cannon. The point of having a load of seekers is to allow for them to be called in from other sources, other than the Sky Ray. And even then, 6 missiles is a small load when you think about being able to fire 2 per turn from the Sky Ray alone. That's only 3 turns of shooting then you're just a big tank with an 2nd support system. Building on that, to push three of these tanks into heavy support totally denies you railgun access. That means, your real anti-tank capabilities now revolve around fusion blasters, fielded in Fast Attack and Elite slots--both on frail close range units.

Next up, to make that big heavy first turn hit work with Sky Rays, you need markerlights. Well, that's 18 missiles and only 6 lights. You need another 12 lights. Obviously troops cannot do this. Only pathfinders can help you mass up lights. Guess what Pathfinders are, more support.

Taking too much support in the form of Sky Rays and Pathfinders is like buying a bunch of weaponless Drones. Sure, they're fun to move around, they score, but for their cost, they're just not adding up to total output like a normal hammerhead or normal gundrones would, if you follow me.

Sky Rays are good when you have one in the army, supporting other units.
Basing the army on them, well, it just doesn't work outside of a casual game.
Just like basing an army on Pathfinders doesn't really work out.

Cheers!
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 23:57   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

Umm...

No. I don't do it because it would be highly innefective. Your ideas of cheese must be reevaluated.

18 Asshole cannons are cheese.

A weapon platform with two markerlights and 6 seeker missiles is not. Why, if I took three, I might launch 6 Str 8 Ap 3 missiles at the enemy each turn! Totally worth the 400 pts and 3 heavy slots!
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Old 08 Aug 2006, 00:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

Quote:
You are essentially spending 125 points for six missiles and two markerlights (available in two pathfinders for 24 points, meaning you are spending 100 points on six missiles mounted on a Hammerhead chassis)
Wrong. The two markerlights from the Pathfinders costs 48 points for the four Pathfinders and then anothre 80 points for the devil fish. Thats 128 points. 3 more than the Skyray. And if you add a Targetting Array that is 130 points for a more survivable and accurate markerlight unit.

The cheese factor of the three Sky Rays is very minimal and may even be negative, like a full squad of kroot with all the extras added on. If you add a Targetting array to each of them and a Multi Tracker you could boost them forward in the first turn and fire the markerlights on BS4. You should only target the tanks and other pains-in-the-butt that deserve a Seeker. For example, Avatars, Greater Demons, Demon Princes, etc... Fire two seekers at each tank or target. Also pack in a few Markerlights in the static FW's and add some Pathfinders. Use the scout move to get them in range and let the light show begin.
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Old 08 Aug 2006, 00:22   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

Not a terible move, if you ask me also. Certainly not cheesy.

The skyray's biggest problem is that its just too... supporty for a heavy-support slot. Tau are chock-full of support units, and putting one in one of the rare places we can actually set up some real firepower counts very strongly against it.

I'd honestly make it a 0~2 troops-choice... maybe 0~1. MAYBE fast attack (big maybe).

But as is, despite being a great bargin (2 marker drones and 6 missiles would come up to just 5 points less than the basic chassis), its still to prohibitive to take in large numbers. I can put those missiles on Devilfish, Piranhas, hammerheads... the only advantage to this turret is it lets the vehicle hold 6 instead of 2. Great, except I'd rather pay to add them to a piranha so they'll be hitting rear armor.

Make it 2 missiles and a networked markerlight for, say, 30 points, and you have yourself a secondary weapon option worthy of swapping the SMS out from under half your warfish, or superb for that ionhead. As a main gun though? not so great.
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Old 08 Aug 2006, 01:47   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Is 2 or 3 Skyray's cheesy?

If you want your army to be based on Missiles raining down from up above go for it. You wold run out fast though and be in trouble. Other than that your opponent would wet his/her pants and go crying home!
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