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To Devilfish or not to....
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 12:01   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default To Devilfish or not to....

How important is it to put you're firwarriors in a Devilfish. I think (and I am a really, really new Tau player) that because the firewarriors are only gonna sit and shoot they don't need to be moved around. Isn't it better to use those points for more units?

Other question. Firewarriors are best used in units of......6.....10.....or more......

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Old 15 Dec 2004, 12:39   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

Some people say yes, some say no. It all depends on how you play.

Oh, and as for squad size... I'd always go for 10 or more.
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 12:57   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

having had some small amount of experience with this topic I can safely say that devilfishes are important. I always feild at lest half of my squads mounted as it gives them the ability to run when needed and 12 FW piling out infront of a squad and rapidfiring will put a dent in it nomatter what it is, this is especially useful for finishing units that crisis suits or stealths have chopped away at or that kroot are intending to charge.

a good army core IMHO is

12xFW -shasúi
-bonded
-devilfish
220pts

12xFW -shasúi
-bonded
140pts

20xkroot
140pts

the kroot can support the immobile FW squad while the fish squad flies around wreaking havok
sprinkle this with some crisis and a shasó and a HH and you have an army ;D

as for unit size always keep it at 12 unless smaller games make it 10 to save points.

good luck
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 13:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

I must say Method, do not use anyones list and realisticly do not listen to anyone about this, the only thing it is safe to say is 12 FW's per squad (maximum) is by far more effective. As Wargamer said Devilfishes are a matter of opinnion, (as are Kroot) so the only way you will come to a decision is trialling them at a store...
as i myself do not use any except for with my one squad of pathfinders, and that works for me... so just try them for yourself...thats not to say i dont have a mobile army though, its just those parts are immobile...

;D
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 13:14   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

hmmmm 1 yes, 1 no.....
ok the 12 man units is a fact.

maybe I'm saying something really stupid now but isnt the tau tactik to stay at your side of the board an keep on shooting at everything that moves?
why bother to step in a devilfish and fly to other side of the board to do some more shooting and get assaulted or shot because i'm to close to the enemy?
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 13:24   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Method
hmmmm 1 yes, 1 no.....
ok the 12 man units is a fact.

maybe I'm saying something really stupid now but isnt the tau tactik to stay at your side of the board an keep on shooting at everything that moves?
why bother to step in a devilfish and fly to other side of the board to do some more shooting and get assaulted or shot because i'm to close to the enemy?
Usually tau count on countermobility, where you would use more mobile troops to counter the enemys attack and withdraw without taking too much damage, like hit and run, although most keep a stationary firebase consisting of Fire Warriors and other non mobile troops.
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 13:39   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

this is a question amost and I'm not trying to offend you here, Tau noobs ask. the firing line is straight out boring, the fish alows you to move about and avoid charges much easier than staying on your side of the board and also adds the possibility of flying into rapid fire range which in the new rules is a devastating prospect. 2 RFFW squads is enough to turn almost any squad to cake.

RJay, thats coming quite close to offending me. I try to suggest a sample list of how to incorporate devilfishes into an army and you attack it, not good form people, not good form.

i find those who scorn the devilfish and play the firing line to be the kind of boring player who will ignore the fluff and go with an army that will provide him with a win (even if the line is actually sub standard in 4th). while I have been attacking the line for quite a while (which I'm sure your tired of) it does present us with some valuable lessons, due to the cost-benefit ratio a devilfish for every squad often doesnt turn out to be a good investment but also no devilfishes makes the HH a bigger target, thus with the constructive use of a devilfish being to make a nuisanve of itself it seems that those two purposes overlap.
Thus a static portion of the army will exist this is the lesson of the line, make it discreet, I find a small line of FW to be the best as they will not attract as much attention as the devilfishes, the devilfishes therefore will fly around attracting assorted gribblies from the opponent and towing them into veiw of the line which along with the enclosed squad obliterates them.

the line in essence is a flawed tactic as if the opponent gets to it your dead, but with the addition of Kroot and Devilfishes the list becomes more maneuverable and can take a charge with the addition of a squad of kroot (20 man 60 attacks on the charge, yes please!) the fishes also allow for tank shock and if im not mistaken can block charges (can they? I was thinking but havent tried it due to holiday)

to sum up, the firing line is a bad tactic but can be incorporated into a successful army by using parts of another flawed tactic (the entire mecha army) thus producing a hybrid which eliminates the weaknesses of both.
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 13:47   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

well I didn't like the fireline either, but it is what I am seeing when looking at tournaments.

I will go for 3 12 man units al in a devilfish. I like the idea of blocking a line of sight and assault. also the fire attention sounds good. takes the heat of my other expensive units. the tactic of waiting for someone to approach my warriors and wenn there almost there to step in my fishy and fly of to the other end of the board also sounds very neat.

for the kroots, i'm already painting a 20 strong squad. still dont know if I should take al the options like a krootox and those nice little doggies.....
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 14:10   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzygamer(on Holiday,6 weeks)
RJay, thats coming quite close to offending me. I try to suggest a sample list of how to incorporate devilfishes into an army and you attack it, not good form people, not good form.

i find those who scorn the devilfish and play the firing line to be the kind of boring player who will ignore the fluff and go with an army that will provide him with a win (even if the line is actually sub standard in 4th). while I have been attacking the line for quite a while (which I'm sure your tired of) it does present us with some valuable lessons, due to the cost-benefit ratio a devilfish for every squad often doesnt turn out to be a good investment but also no devilfishes makes the HH a bigger target, thus with the constructive use of a devilfish being to make a nuisanve of itself it seems that those two purposes overlap.
Thus a static portion of the army will exist this is the lesson of the line, make it discreet, I find a small line of FW to be the best as they will not attract as much attention as the devilfishes, the devilfishes therefore will fly around attracting assorted gribblies from the opponent and towing them into veiw of the line which along with the enclosed squad obliterates them.

the line in essence is a flawed tactic as if the opponent gets to it your dead, but with the addition of Kroot and Devilfishes the list becomes more maneuverable and can take a charge with the addition of a squad of kroot (20 man 60 attacks on the charge, yes please!) the fishes also allow for tank shock and if im not mistaken can block charges (can they? I was thinking but havent tried it due to holiday)

to sum up, the firing line is a bad tactic but can be incorporated into a successful army by using parts of another flawed tactic (the entire mecha army) thus producing a hybrid which eliminates the weaknesses of both.
Im sorry if i offended you dizzygamer, and i did not intend to, i was merely trying to point out to Method that realistically it is only a matter of opinnion and no one can decide for him as it boils down to how he as an individual plays.

Also i didn't scorn the devilfish,i merely said i use one and keep my FW's still alongside my Broadsides, this doesnt mean i have a static army either as i find that completely boring also, see i use gun drones, crisis battlesuits, stealth battlesuits, the Devilfish and pathfinders mobile so the opponent has to think, not just move forward...
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Old 15 Dec 2004, 14:34   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: To Devilfish or not to....

The only army that can really do the "sit and shoot" routine is the SIGAFH (or Shooty Imperial Guard Army From Hell). Such armies are the bane of Tau, as the only way to defeat a SIGAFH is to assault it (which Tau can't do) or outshoot it (which no-one can do!).

IG are for static-firepower, Tau are mobile-firepower. I prefer to use Firewarriors as a static firebase, giving supporting fire and a meatshield to stop Broadsides from being assaulted. Everything else needs to keep moving.
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