Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

The three firebase theory (patent pending)
Closed Thread
Old 03 Aug 2006, 08:46   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
Default The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Gosh I've been in a jovial mood, just got a raise the other day.$$$$ ;D

Anyway, I've got a little more for you on my personal theory on tactics. It involves firebases.

Now, this won't be for those of you that like a strictly mobile army, but since a fully mobile army leaves out sniper teams, broadsides, and kroot. I'm sure this will appeal to some of you.
My theory on tactics starts with unit choices (duhh!!). I run a hybrid type list with lots of ultra mobile units backing up static units arranged into three small firebases.

First off, I'll list the units I like to use(my list changes somewhat so this is more of a guide than a list).
Second I'll described how they're deployed and why.
Last, I'll describe what each units role is and how to use them effectively.

This is going to be a long post so you may want to go to the bathroom/get a drink now............................................... .................................................. .........
:
:
*checks watch*
> *taps foot*
Well, that took a while ;D ( I said I got a raise didn't I. :P)

Part One: Unit selection do's and don'ts
(these are going to come out of order from the codex, I put them in the order I feel is most important)

Fast Attack Do's

Piranhas with Fusion, Decoy, targetting arrays.
You should take at least two squads of Piranha kitted out as such. The number you put in the units should reflect the size of game you're playing. For 2000 points I like 6 Piranha total. See Below.

A full squad of vespid
Take a full squad, you'll want the for their rapid response, and MeQ killing goodness.
and with effective use of cover/Piranha screening they will survive more than one round to do more damage. If you run three squads of 2 Piranha, you'll be leaving them at home, but that is the only reason I wouldn't take em.

Fast Attack Don'ts

Gun drone squadrons.
They cost 2 more points than you can get them elsewhere, and they come free with purchase of a brand new Piranha/Devilfish. Plus, without a high speed delivery system (Piranha's) They will take a while to get into position, which makes the term "Fast Attack" seem sorta ludicrous. Leave these at home and just get more Piranha.

Pathfinders
I know I know, "Boo, Hiss" But follow my logic. Pathfinders carry heavy weapons, heavy weapons can't move and fire. Thus, why would you want a team of heavy weapons infiltrating where they will have to move a lot sooner because the enemy ends up in their face turn 1??? Even if you place them with your army, they still have to all markerlight the same unit, so there is a lack of versatility there. I would rather have my markerlights in different fire lanes lighting up different targets so I can respond with the right force, in the right place, at the right time. Besides, you have to pay for an 80 point(without upgrades) devilfish which doesn't count as scoring. As for having plenty of markerlights, I'll address that a little later on.

Heavy Support Do's

Sniper Drones
These things are sweet for so many reasons. First, the spotter has higher than normal BS due to his targetting array, a markerlight to take advantage of that, and a stealth field. The drones have rail rifles, target locks, and stealth. This means the entire unit is very survivable and can cause enemy units to miss its shots or ignore them entirely, target different units individually, and blow the crap outta marines. The downside is, it is not a scoring unit, but that just makes it expendable(which has many uses). Oh did I mention their guns cause pinning and are strong enough to have a decent chance at destroying Rhinos?? Not bad for 80 points, and you can run up to 3 separate teams for 240 points. "So, I can have all these awesome abilities in three separate fire lanes??? On one supoport slot???" "Wowee its like Christmas all year long."

Ionheads
I distinctly left out railheads, but I'll get to why in the "Don'ts" section. Ionheads with decoy launcher, burst cannon, and multi tracker costs only 130 points. What do you get for a 130 points?? Well, you get a 9 shot killing machine that hits on a 3+ and has the capability of not only mowing down every type infantry with a 3+ save or worse, but they can still kill light vehicles very efficiently. Add a target lock for 5 points and now you can split its fire between three separate units. Oh and never forget that its front armor combined with the "skimmers moving fast rule" means that only a lascannon/equivalent or better has any real hope of doing anything to it. Krakk missiles and plasma guns can hurt it, but I'd rely on diligent prayers to Zeus for an immediate lightning smite first. Even if/when it does die, it will most likely soak up so much fire for your Piranha teams that it was well worth it. And Visa Versa.

Broadsides
We all know what these babies can do, but without railheads in the list they become essential. After all, you're going to want a team of these for the railguns alone. Only railguns can deal with certain threats which require heavy firepower such as Monoliths, Demon Princes, Aunt Judy, the IRS, and Land Raiders. ;D Having only one team may seem like a risk, but the Piranha's and their Fusion Blasters more than make up for this. BTW give all the broadsides ASS and give the leader 2 shield drones and TL Plasma with a multi-tracker. If you have spare points give him a target lock as well, but this is completely optional.

Heavy Support Don'ts

Skyray
Just don't have room in the list. It doesn't do anything that the other heavy choices(in this combination) can't do better. Ionheads kill marines faster, sniper teams kill marines and markerlight things better and cause, pinning, missed shots, etc...., and Broadsides kill armor more effectively. Sorry skyray, your mobile markerlights and high BS are kewl and everything, but I just don't have the room. :'(
Plus I can put seekers on my Piranha if I really want em. ;D

Railheads
I know, I know, again with the "Boo, Hiss, your mother wears combat boots, I love my railheads" but seriously, what can a railhead do for you that a broadside can't do better?? Kill infantry with a pie plate you say? well thats all well and good, but I think I can find plenty of STR5 weapons to kill infantry with, and the broadsides all come with SMS if you wanna kill infantry. Plus if it misses, it misses. No second chances. That's why the TL-Railguns on the Broadsides are better. Also broadside teams benefit more from markerlight hits. And Broadsides soak hits even better than a Railhead, but only if you give them the shield drones like you should.

What can it do better than an Ionhead? Kill vehicles you say? Well, I'd say yes, up to a certain armor value anyway. But against light armor, I'd bet an Ionhead is just as effective(because it doesn't rely on only one shot). Even up to armor 12 I'd imagine(haven't done the math) the Ionhead can nearly hold its own in a tank busting contest with the railhead. And for anything armor 13 and above you should be using your Broadsides or Piranha anyway. The Ionhead is much better at killing marines as well, as it has three good AP shots. The clincher is the fact that the railhead costs 35 points more. Thats a whole stealth suit for crying out loud!!!!

Troops Do's

Fire Warriors
Gotta take one unit of em right? so do. But make em small, say 9 man strong. This minimizes the effects of that first morale test for the points after all it takes 3 dead DW to force that first check whether there are 9 or 12 in the unit. And it saves some points, make it six man strong if you need to shave some points. Next, add a team leader and markerlight. This adds to their flexability. In games where your opponent doesn't let you use Gue'la or if you don't own any, take another 2 teams of 6 with markerlights in addition to the team of nine. Oh, and last but not least, don't add a devilfish. I know you mech purists will seize up at this, but you need static elements for these kinds of tactics to work. And the devilfish are too much of a point sink for a non scoring unit.

Gue'la(Human Auxiliaries)
A team of six of these guys with a leader and a markerlight costs only 56 points. I usually take two teams.

Kroot
The kroot are great in small teams of 10, infiltrated into some cover. take at least one squad but no more than 2. Leave the Ox/shaper/hounds at home. They are either a waste of points(shaper), hinder infiltrate(Ox), or can't shoot(hounds).

There really are no troop don'ts other than the limits on the kroot, and don't take transports, and those are just upgrades. Also, I sometimes switch up the troop section of my list in order to try out different combination of Gue'la/Fire Warrior squads. Play with this part of the list until you get it where you like it.

HQ Do's

Hmm this whole section is rather difficult, as it is really personal preference, but here is my opinion. Other Than Shadowsun, the special characters are not even mentioned here as they usually are run in special lists.

Commander('O/'El)
Take the 'el, not the 'o give him a targetting array, Stimulant injector, and multi tracker and whatever weapons you like to play with. I like him in fireknife, but I also like the AFP or the CIB when I'm feeling experimental. Shield drones can be nice if you give him iridium armor, because he becomes impossible to kill, but he also becomes very expensive and loses his speed. If you are going to make him very defensive like that, make sure he stays out front until the drones die, so he can absorb hits for the rest of your troops. I personally don't fool with it. I just put him behind the line and JSJ to gain range and then retreat back behind. His IC status should protect him. This character is really personal preference though, so kit him out however you like.

HQ Don'ts

Ethereal
Blehhh, too much liability for my taste, sure his reroll for Ld is nice, but most of my army is comprised of vehicles, and hard to kill units like broadsides, or expendable units like sniper drones. Hmm, if you really want a Ld boost, try out commander shadowsun. She'll most likely take the place of you commander though, since she's so expensive, but she counts as the 1+ commander and it's OK. Her Ld boost is better than an Ethereals as it doesn't require LOS, has great range, and uses her Ld for the test. This is important because even if a unit gets to reroll its Ld due to an ethereal it still has to use its own Ld, if that Ld is a 4 then they will probably still fail. Whereas, as long as Shadowsun doesn't have any modifiers to her Ld, then the unit gets to roll with her very high Ld. Also, take into consideration shadowsuns offensive/defensive capability, and you have a much better option for filling the Ld role than an Ethereal.

Elite Do's

Crisis Suits
There are lots of tactica on these beauties, so I wont go into any depth. Just make sure and kit some to kill marines, and some to kill light infantry. I like the fireknife configuration, as it fits well with my list and can do both. Don't waste to many points on leader upgrades unless you have em to spare, bare bones fireknives cost 186 points for a unit of three and do great with the help of markerlights.

Elite Don'ts

Stealth's
Now, I know half you are about to string me up for this, and the other half just left the room, but hear me out. While I do understand that stealth's can be a good unit, in the frame of these tactics they have no place. They are not needed in the middle as the drones from the Piranha, the Piranha themselves, and the kroot will all be there. So, just skip em and take more crisis suits. If you really wanna take em, sub out the kroot and buy a team of em. It really won't hurt anything if you do. But keep in mind, you have now sacrificed 2 expendable "speed bumps" for 1 unit that will fall back and attempt to join the main base at some point or just move to the flank. So keep in mind that the enemy will be on you faster. Also, you'll only be able to get 4 suits and 2 gun drones in exchange for the 20 kroot you just gave up. Is it worth it? Not the way I play, but you may like them better, so it doesn't really matter.

Now onto deployment.

I place the sniper teams out front of 3 distinct firebases.

The ones on the flank only contain 1 sniper team and 1 small troop choice(Gue'la or Fire Warriors).

The base in the middle will have the largest team of troops with one sniper team out front and the broadside team spread out in a line at the back. Place you HQ will this base and put your other crisis teams slightly to either side so they can reach the outer two bases quickly. The Piranha and Ionhead should be hidden if possible.

The snipers are placed out front of the bases to encourage the enemy to shoot at them early. If he wastes even one shot at them first round, the ruse has worked as he has wasted shots. The troops should all be in cover of course.

The Kroot out in cover on either flank in the middle, think of them as your 4th and possibly 5th(if you took two squads) firebase respectively.

Finally, the tactics of this setup.

Turn 1

The plan is simple, get the Piranhas moving up the flanks first turn and into cover. Position them so they may strike at enemy armor second turn. This will of course involve moving 24" the first turn.

Move the Ionhead up and look for defensable positions which can offer you a few targets without exposing the tank to his entire army.

The rest of the army judges how he has moved if he went first, then reacts accordingly. and then simply shoots then jumps behind cover.

Turn 2

Piranhas drop drones, and proceed to kill tanks.

The drones should harrass enemy units coming across the field, as should the kroot. really get those drones in their faces, after all they're expendable. And don't be afraid to charge a unit with the kroot if you need to slow it down.

If you feel most of the enemies armor killing capability will be dead at the end of this turn, begin making more aggressive moves toward the middle with the Ionhead. Otherwise play it safe and snipe what you can.

The rest of the army continues to fire and hide as typical of a tau army. The Broadsides should be killing armor, the troops and snipers markerlighting for the more dangerous elements.

Turn 3

By this point his armor should be pretty much toast. You've probably lost a Piranha or two, so begin to withdraw the squads which are in danger of losing their scoring unit status. Use a 24" move to get them back by your line and in cover on the flanks. The other Piranha squad(s), which are still healthy has a choice, they can continue to harrass the back line or they can move to the middle. It depends on the situation, but since they can move fast if need be, you have options. Keep their target priority list in mind though, they should have killed all the armor by now with the help of the Broadsides, and should be moving on to 2+ heavy infantry. Or, if the enemy has fast assaulter's reaching you line next turn have them pull a "bug screen maneuver" for the vespid (see my Piranha tactica) and kill those assaulter's.

If he happens to be sending troops down the flanks, he probably won't send more than a unit or two to deal with such a small annoyance on the flank, so let him pass the units in the middle and instead move your crisis suits over to support whichever flank he threatens.

If he does attempts to send his whole army into a flanking maneuver, you can trap him against an edge with your more mobile units, and though the flank will fall he'll never make it to the middle base. This has happened to me before and his army loses all strentgh before it hits my middle base.

If a flanking firebase does happen to fall, even to just a unit or two, fight a running retreat with the Gue'la/Fire warriors, and sacrifice the sniper drones to slow him down. The fire warriors and crisis suits should be pounding away, and the vespid or Piranhas can be called in if need be. This has never happened as no one or 2 units can really survive the crisis onslaught, coupled with the markerlights of the flanking firebases.

The Ionhead should be massacering any heavy weapon teams he has left in his line, devastator squads come to mind, or if he is trying to completely overrun one flank, send it over help.

I've never had an opponent attack both flanks at once, but if he split his forces like that, I'd send minimal crisis teams to the least dangerous side to fight a delaying action, while sending the bulk of my forces to the other side and stage a fighting retreat to the middle.

The best is when someone tries to run right up the middle...hilarious, as I have him in box canyon so to speak with the crossfire raining in. Markerlight hits are soooo much more effective when you have your enemy all together and you can pick and choose. If the middle should happen to be serioiusly threatened(which it never has) bail out to one side or the other and set up again with the mobile elements at one of the smaller secondary bases. This should never happen, but it may if the dice gods hate you that day.

Now, what about drop pod marines, lots of infiltrators, demon bombs and the like? Well, these are difficult armies, but since the majority of your force will be ultra mobile, with the remainder spread out in smaller than average chunks, your opponent will have a hard time deciding where the best place to attack is. If he drops into the middle both smaller base will be able support the middle while the mobile elements move in to assist and fight running retreats. If he should drop on a flanking base, simply have the suits/piranhas/vespid/ionhead move up and once again fight a running retreat to the middle. If he drops everywhere at once, he is going to be spread thin so kill what you can where you can and make sure and keep your mobile elements on one side where they can support each other and "liberate at least one base". BTW if he does happen to get every unit to drop in at once, look him in the eye and say "you are the better man". If he accomplished it with a demon bombing slaaneesh armoy, call him a cheese wheel then proceed to give him low loooooow sportmanship scores. After all, that is the cheapest most bogus thing I have ever seen, right up there with a Tigririus "Fear of the Dark" Army. I you feel you may be facing THAT, bring shadowsun, and pray.

Back to the tactics at hand.
The real beauty of this list is the fact that while there are some static elements, they are so small that they are not that tactically important, victory points wise. But they are large enough to give your more mobile resources adequate bolstering when and where they need it. Kind of like how rocks in a river can act as a breakwater and divert the flow of the water. So too do the more static elements act as "speed bumps" and break waters diverting enemy forces to and around them. All the while, the mobile elements use those "rocks in the stream" as shelter and defensible positions.

Hope you enjoyed my theory on battlefield tactics!!! ;D

__________________
Click the link and give me 10 views toward 10 million dollars. THIS MEANS YOU!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7B2D8911D19D2
israfel420 is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 12:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 219
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Great tactica! ;D

I will have to try this when I finish building my army, I really like the idea of pirhana harrassment teams.

How does deep-striking work with this list (have you tried it)?

What would you do if your opponent brought a couple of beefed up defilers to the party, with indirect fire (hiding out of view behind terrain) and with the chaos upgrades giving them armour 13, ignoring stunned, shaken and able to repair immobilized or weapon destroyed results. (sorry for the obscure question but my friend feils these tanks ALOT and they are nearly impossible to kill :P). The constant hail of Ap3 high strength templates would make a mess of the static bases.

Good work

-drodgers
__________________
"The strength of your force may be calculated by multiplying it's weight by it's velocity. Strive always to maximize both" - Commander Puertide

"For the Greater Good!"
drodgers is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 13:18   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,742
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Wow. Too much speculation on effect in a dice game.

Starting with Do/don't section. Piranhas may be cool, but at 60 pts for a BC they are extra expensive. Team of 3, 1 with FB, means you pay almost 200pts for 3 weak skimmers with limited weapons and 6 drones. Hmmm...for that money I can get 3 DS drone squadrons with approximately the same firepower. And they will drop in after all the fast crap is dead on both sides...turn 2.

next BS are excellent, but never in teams. A single BS with a drone has far more use. It can be bought cheap (no TL, SG, or MT) and placed in terrain commanding large areas. the problem with teams of BS is it almost requires bonding (another cost) and addition of sheild generators or drones (more cost). A team of 3 looses 1 and the other two will take a hike off the field 50% of the time. Also if 1 can't kill it, then statistically the chances are not doubled if you have 2. Better to run these boys alone.

Ionheads are great, but I'm thinking you are concentrating on SM opponants. Railheads clear swatches of IG, DE, E, nids with ease using template. I agree though that cheap ionheads are hard to pass up.

Stealth...5 give you 15 shots that can glance rhinor frontal armor....That's 15 shots that kill anything not in powerarmor outright with no save: IG, DE, E, Orks, Nids... For 150pts, you can't afford not to take them. And they infiltrate and JSJ. so consider your piranha unit of 3 at 180pts for 9 BS4 shots and 6 BS2.5 shots. total 15 shots averaging BS3. For 150pts I get 15 BS3 shots with stealth, a 3+ save, stealth field, infiltrate, JSJ ability, and....a FB if I feel squirrelly. Oh, and I can't take TA, DC, any type drone I want, blah blah blah. Stealth are by far the best anti infantry and anti light armor troop available.


On to tactics: Against anyone with a balanced army and half a brain, those piranha will not survive to hunt armor. Facing any SM player I know, landspeeders will crush them with assault cannon. Facing IG, lascannons and autocannons galore. Facing DE or E, yeah you're gonna be slower and he will catch/kill you.

The firebase theory is very similar to a tactica I wrote about a year ago called Combat Teams. The difference is in the application of manuver. Better to design your teams around a central purpose (objective graber, flank defender, etc).

Nice effort, but IMO more theory than practical

Wanax
Shaso Wanax is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 14:05   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

2 mobile fire bases and a smallish static element.

hmm... with tau ranges, they should be able to cover each other. And do fine as long as those at the help think about what they're doing.

I'd recommend against discounting any units in the codex tho. In my exp, they've all worked out well for me in their specialty. In particular, i never take to the field at 1500 or more without a fully loaded pathfinder team.

I'm too addicted to my 9 plasma/fusion death rounds on JSJ platform. It is too rash to discount the pathfinders I feel. Why else dos everyone target and kill pathfinders first no matter where you deploy them?

When you get to be alittle more exp'd with Tau, balanced enemy armies are not so big a threat. Those that are really a threat are those that can achieve assault on first turn. Namely: infiltrating jumpers, speed freaks et al.
Knight Actual is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 16:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drodgers
Great tactica! ;D

I will have to try this when I finish building my army, I really like the idea of pirhana harrassment teams.

How does deep-striking work with this list (have you tried it)?

What would you do if your opponent brought a couple of beefed up defilers to the party, with indirect fire (hiding out of view behind terrain) and with the chaos upgrades giving them armour 13, ignoring stunned, shaken and able to repair immobilized or weapon destroyed results. (sorry for the obscure question but my friend feils these tanks ALOT and they are nearly impossible to kill :P). The constant hail of Ap3 high strength templates would make a mess of the static bases.

Good work

-drodgers
Well, first no, I have not really tried Deep Striking wtoo much. The reason is simply tha I hate to start things off the board where they can't do anything for the first turn(at least). Also, since I don't take pathfinders, it's difficult to garauntee when they'll arrive.

As fot Defilers, I have a friend that plays a khorne army and he always takes one, But I've never faced 2 at the same time. It shoulden't be that big of a deal though, after all, in a 1500 point game You should be running 2 teams of 2 Piranha, and a team of broadsides. with markerlight help, you should be able to kill/weapon destroy at least one of them each turn. And if he happens to target the sniper drones its gonna roll 2d6 for scatter everytime. Better than nothing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WANAX of the drones
Wow. Too much speculation on effect in a dice game.

Starting with Do/don't section. Piranhas may be cool, but at 60 pts for a BC they are extra expensive. Team of 3, 1 with FB, means you pay almost 200pts for 3 weak skimmers with limited weapons and 6 drones. Hmmm...for that money I can get 3 DS drone squadrons with approximately the same firepower. And they will drop in after all the fast crap is dead on both sides...turn 2.

next BS are excellent, but never in teams. A single BS with a drone has far more use. It can be bought cheap (no TL, SG, or MT) and placed in terrain commanding large areas. the problem with teams of BS is it almost requires bonding (another cost) and addition of sheild generators or drones (more cost). A team of 3 looses 1 and the other two will take a hike off the field 50% of the time. Also if 1 can't kill it, then statistically the chances are not doubled if you have 2. Better to run these boys alone.

Ionheads are great, but I'm thinking you are concentrating on SM opponants. Railheads clear swatches of IG, DE, E, nids with ease using template. I agree though that cheap ionheads are hard to pass up.

Stealth...5 give you 15 shots that can glance rhinor frontal armor....That's 15 shots that kill anything not in powerarmor outright with no save: IG, DE, E, Orks, Nids... For 150pts, you can't afford not to take them. And they infiltrate and JSJ. so consider your piranha unit of 3 at 180pts for 9 BS4 shots and 6 BS2.5 shots. total 15 shots averaging BS3. For 150pts I get 15 BS3 shots with stealth, a 3+ save, stealth field, infiltrate, JSJ ability, and....a FB if I feel squirrelly. Oh, and I can't take TA, DC, any type drone I want, blah blah blah. Stealth are by far the best anti infantry and anti light armor troop available.


On to tactics: Against anyone with a balanced army and half a brain, those piranha will not survive to hunt armor. Facing any SM player I know, landspeeders will crush them with assault cannon. Facing IG, lascannons and autocannons galore. Facing DE or E, yeah you're gonna be slower and he will catch/kill you.

The firebase theory is very similar to a tactica I wrote about a year ago called Combat Teams. The difference is in the application of manuver. Better to design your teams around a central purpose (objective graber, flank defender, etc).

Nice effort, but IMO more theory than practical

Wanax
I don't get the "too much speculation" comment, what does that mean??? I mean isn't that's what this forum is all about, speculation?? Including your reply to my tactica.? ??? Oh Well


I don't typically use burst cannons on my Piranhas. If you'll check my suggested loadout, I say to take fusion blasters. I say if you don't run vespid, it's ok to run a squad of 2 with BC, but I usually take the vespid. BTW you are forgetting the 2 drones apiece on the Piranha whe nyou compare them to stealth suits. If I were to run them with burst cannons, for a team of three Piranha @ 180 ponts that would be 15 shots @ str5 6 of which have better than average BS and cause pinning. Not to mention they can detach have 6 wounds. So, when you compare them you left a few things out :

Moving along, if you were to use Deep Striking Gun Drones, how can you gaurentee that all three drones squads will drop in turn 2? After all, a pathfinder squad only guides 1 per round, and if you leave it to chance, won't you will statistacally get only1.5 to drop in turn 2? If I've missed something there, lemme know.

Broadsides, have a 2+ save, and 4+ invulnerable on their drones, I have never had a team set up like that flee off the board. If they happen to fail a morale check, They can still rally since they have a decent Ld @8 Besides, barring an unlucky first round set of rolls, your opponent should be too busy with drones and Piranhas early in the game to remember the Broadsides in the back. And no they don't hike 50% of the time if you give them those drones. If you worry about it, run commander shadowsun. I do sometimes.

Yeah, this list is geared a little toward killing Meq, but thats what most people play SM & CSM. The next biggest army is IG, which this list chews apart because of the high tank busting. Eldar are next and since they usually run a fair amount of vehicles, the same rule apllies. With horde armies, the list still does good, because of the delay tactics involved and the ability to outmanuever the opponent. So that's why I run Ionhead.

As far as killing light infantry with stealths, I've pointed out where you can replace the kroot with a stealth squad if that's your preferance, these tactics don't hinge on that part of the list, as no army should really hinge on their ability to kill a specific type of unit. Armies should hinge on their overall tactical purpose. Mine is mobility defending static "speed bumps". And once again, on the Piranha I only use Fusion Blasters, and you're forgetting the drones.

As for assault cannon speeders, that is kinda like a weaker version of a Piranha. I played a guy running 3 of em the other day. All you have to do is stay in cover where he can't manuevor to get a shot without moving over 12" and losing his. Those speeders are way more frigile than the Piranha. Think about it. Typical enemy troops have a STR4 weapon. The Piranha has 11 front armor. Therefore basic enemy wepons can't hurt it. The speeders on the other hand have a front armor 10 end fire warriors have a STR5 gun. So, for every hit a basic fire warrior inflicts hes got a 1/3 change to glance that open topped vehicle. Hmm not good odds for the poor landspeeders. This is, in fact, what happened the ather day against that SM player. I moved my Piranha up but, not too far, and kept em in cover. He then foolishly moved his speeders to try to angle a shot. He was able to get an angle on 1 of a team of 3 and hit it twice with no glances, (somewhat lucky, but @ Str6, he needed 5's). I then opened up on him next 2nd turn with my fire warriors, and some kroot which were in rapid fire range. the 9 man fire warrior team killed one, and the kroot killed another, while weapon destroying the third.

As far as static lascannons in IG squads, yeah they may kill some, but the sheer number of Piranha overloads these teams usually, and it's not like I expose them completely. I use his own vehicles to hide behind after/while I'm turning them to slag with my Fusion. Dark Eldar and Eldar are a joke against this list. They fall in massive numbers to all the light vehicle/hevay vehicle punch this llist carries.

Lastly, you're tactica "combat teams" sounds interesting, I'd like to read it. But, I only have one problem with kitting out teams to do specific things. Flexibility. I like my teams of units to multi role and have many differenet tactical options. Battlefields are chaotic, and teams of units need to be constructed so they can do more than one thing. Otherwise, they may be overwhelemed by an unknown and then you've lost the only team which can fulfill its role properly. I'd rather have a decentralized force with no single unit forced to do one particular thing. This is why FB eqqipped Piranhas are so good, they can kill tanks, and their drones can kill/pin infantry, they make great objective grabbers, and if you read my Piranha tactica, they can do a whole lot more. Read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" if you want more info on how I think tactically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Actual
2 mobile fire bases and a smallish static element.

hmm... with tau ranges, they should be able to cover each other. And do fine as long as those at the help think about what they're doing.

I'd recommend against discounting any units in the codex tho. In my exp, they've all worked out well for me in their specialty. In particular, i never take to the field at 1500 or more without a fully loaded pathfinder team.

I'm too addicted to my 9 plasma/fusion death rounds on JSJ platform. It is too rash to discount the pathfinders I feel. Why else dos everyone target and kill pathfinders first no matter where you deploy them?

When you get to be alittle more exp'd with Tau, balanced enemy armies are not so big a threat. Those that are really a threat are those that can achieve assault on first turn. Namely: infiltrating jumpers, speed freaks et al.
Yes, that is an excellent point I didn't make, the non mobile elements can still cover each other because of their range.

Your right, this list is not "cut and dry" it is just the way I play and these are the particular elements I use. I don't see why you couldn't aply these tactics with different units. Just make sure you have small expendable firebases which are threatening enough to get your opponenets attention. As wel sa mobile elements to back up those small elements when they become threatened and you should be fine.

This list is great for running your favorite helio configued suiits. The fighting may get a little closer than with fireknife, but when it does, you'll have the advantage. I have actually been known to run a team of 3 helios, and 3 fireknife suits as my crisis configs for support of the bases. The helios gun down termie like no ones business. ;D

As far as experience, I have yet to lose since I've adopted these tactics. I've played against CSM, SM, IG, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks(speed freaks), Nids, and other Tau. I've seen dfferenet cheesed out lists, and this list has always been flexible enough to cope. I have had some draws(against nids). But like I said I have 0 losses and have managed to beat those nids on more than one occasion.

With this tactica, I'm not trying to diss anyone elses methods/favorite units. I'm only presenting what has been a very successful build for an army, and the tactics I use to take them to victory. Try it out, you just might like it.
__________________
Click the link and give me 10 views toward 10 million dollars. THIS MEANS YOU!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7B2D8911D19D2
israfel420 is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 16:18   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 526
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

great!
alot of interesting points there[ i didnt read the game part thing only the do's and dont's really]broadsides are really just a walker/slower version of a railhead, and they can come in teams of 3! i think ill take some pirahnas with fusions.....

btw what does D'yi mean?
__________________
"It's not Space Hulk. We're not redoing Space Hulk. Stop asking about Space Hulk OKAY LOL IT'S SPACE HULK YOU GUYS WERE SOOO FOOLED!"
seven324 is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 16:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seven324
great!
alot of interesting points there[ i didnt read the game part thing only the do's and dont's really]broadsides are really just a walker/slower version of a railhead, and they can come in teams of 3! i think ill take some pirahnas with fusions.....

btw what does D'yi mean?
You gotta read the tactics part, it's the best part!!!

As far as "D'yi" I don't know where tha is in my post, I did a search and never found it, quote the line it's in and I'll make an edit. Thanks.
__________________
Click the link and give me 10 views toward 10 million dollars. THIS MEANS YOU!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7B2D8911D19D2
israfel420 is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 16:43   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,742
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)


Quote:
Originally Posted by WANAX of the drones
Wow. Too much speculation on effect in a dice game.


Nice effort, but IMO more theory than practical

Wanax
Quote:
I don't get the "too much speculation" comment, what does that mean??? I mean isn't that's what this forum is all about, speculation?? Including your reply to my tactica.? ??? Oh Well
No. speculation is anticipating the enemy to fit your battle plan. You speak of your planning very inflexibly to be blunt.

Quote:
I don't typically use burst cannons on my Piranhas. If you'll check my suggested loadout, I say to take fusion blasters. I say if you don't run vespid, it's ok to run a squad of 2 with BC, but I usually take the vespid. BTW you are forgetting the 2 drones apiece on the Piranha whe nyou compare them to stealth suits. If I were to run them with burst cannons, for a team of three Piranha @ 180 ponts that would be 15 shots @ str5 6 of which have better than average BS and cause pinning. Not to mention they can detach have 6 wounds. So, when you compare them you left a few things out :
Isn't it 1 out of 3 can have FB...I may be eldar jetbike transcribing. Anyway, to refute your assertion that I didn't acount for drones, I'm sure I said:

"so consider your piranha unit of 3 at 180pts for 9 BS4 shots and 6 BS2.5 shots. total 15 shots averaging BS3. For 150pts I get 15 BS3 shots with stealth, a 3+ save, stealth field, infiltrate, JSJ ability, and....a FB if I feel squirrelly. Oh, and I can't take TA, DC, any type drone I want, blah blah blah."


Quote:
Moving along, if you were to use Deep Striking Gun Drones, how can you gaurentee that all three drones squads will drop in turn 2? After all, a pathfinder squad only guides 1 per round, and if you leave it to chance, won't you will statistacally get only1.5 to drop in turn 2? If I've missed something there, lemme know.

The fast things like landspeeders are gone by the end of turn 2...i.e. when drones start dropping in. Never said all come in. You are assuming something I didn't say.


Quote:
Broadsides, have a 2+ save, and 4+ invulnerable on their drones, I have never had a team set up like that flee off the board. If they happen to fail a morale check, They can still rally since they have a decent Ld @8 Besides, barring an unlucky first round set of rolls, your opponent should be too busy with drones and Piranhas early in the game to remember the Broadsides in the back. And no they don't hike 50% of the time if you give them those drones. If you worry about it, run commander shadowsun. I do sometimes.
OK, don't know where this is going. An unbonded BS team with a pair of S-drones, TL cost +/- 200pts. All I'm saying is they cause more problems than effect when combined in teams. Where I play, he is target number 1 for all my opponants. 2BS loosing 1 and the drone means no regroup after fallback if unbonded.

Quote:
Yeah, this list is geared a little toward killing Meq, but thats what most people play SM & CSM. The next biggest army is IG, which this list chews apart because of the high tank busting. Eldar are next and since they usually run a fair amount of vehicles, the same rule apllies. With horde armies, the list still does good, because of the delay tactics involved and the ability to outmanuever the opponent. So that's why I run Ionhead.
Umm, don't know how your IG opponants are outnumbering you by 2 to 1 in troops, and heavy weapons. My opponants blast away with no less than 6 or 8 lascannons, 6 or so autocannons, 3 battlecannons, heavy bolters out the yang, and earthshakers. This list would not survive relying upon a weak open topped skimmer to punch armor.

Quote:
Armies should hinge on their overall tactical purpose. Mine is mobility defending static "speed bumps". And once again, on the Piranha I only use Fusion Blasters, and you're forgetting the drones.
See above where I corrected your inattention to my post.

Quote:
As for assault cannon speeders, that is kinda like a weaker version of a Piranha. I played a guy running 3 of em the other day. All you have to do is stay in cover where he can't manuevor to get a shot without moving over 12" and losing his. Those speeders are way more frigile than the Piranha. Think about it. Typical enemy troops have a STR4 weapon. The Piranha has 11 front armor. Therefore basic enemy wepons can't hurt it. The speeders on the other hand have a front armor 10 end fire warriors have a STR5 gun. So, for every hit a basic fire warrior inflicts hes got a 1/3 change to glance that open topped vehicle. Hmm not good odds for the poor landspeeders.
landspeeders are not considered open top since SM are in them. Also you are again assuming the landspeeders are going to recklessly fly after you. Nonsense, he will wait you out and pounce you after you move towards his armor. Any novice would do likewise. Want to talk about glancing speeders? read the statline for assault cannon and the rules on rending. And if you are counting on fast attacks being downed by troop weapons, there is a fundamental area you might reconsider. Usually, my troops are a little busy with more dangerous foes, but on occasion I've had to shoot at speeders. Trust me your piranha unit is not a priority when so many other issues need resolution on the field.

Quote:
As far as static lascannons in IG squads, yeah they may kill some, but the sheer number of Piranha overloads these teams usually, and it's not like I expose them completely. I use his own vehicles to hide behind after/while I'm turning them to slag with my Fusion. Dark Eldar and Eldar are a joke against this list. They fall in massive numbers to all the light vehicle/hevay vehicle punch this llist carries.
Wow you are playing some real novices if this is your opinion. Eldar are a joke :. This is like saying just because you roll dice, no one can win but you. Dude, I've seen eldar players (might want to see which race is doing best on madusa to check my statement) with tiny armies whizz around and kill EVERYTHING by turn 3. IG are so large a team or two of piranhas can't possibly make a dent as you describe. sorry, but I tend to doubt your statement here.


Quote:
Lastly, you're tactica "combat teams" sounds interesting, I'd like to read it. But, I only have one problem with kitting out teams to do specific things. Flexibility. I like my teams of units to multi role and have many differenet tactical options. Battlefields are chaotic, and teams of units need to be constructed so they can do more than one thing.
Wow never mind I said anything. Flexibility is the REASON for combat teams, as the team concept means no one team member needs to by a jack of all trades. Strength in numbers and diversity. Anyway, don't worry about it. Nothing I'm sure you need to read.


Quote:
This is why FB eqqipped Piranhas are so good, they can kill tanks, and their drones can kill/pin infantry, they make great objective grabbers, and if you read my Piranha tactica, they can do a whole lot more.
I did read it. I don't agree. You are trying to fit the Piranha in a role it is not designed for, and are therefore misleading people into beleiving it to be a necessary tool. Try this on. First turn you zoom up a flank (that for some reason has no opponants on it) 24" and don't drop drones because you can't. First turn for enemy, he turns turret, moves 12" on fast skimmer jetbike or falcon, or whatever, or swivels lascannon, aims missile launcher what have you with Str6 or better and BLAM! shoots down 1 or 2 before drones are even deployed. Hey, lets say he only stuns one piranha, ok? guess what? the other two are going to just sit there and take the next shot as skimmers moving less than 6". Know what that means? penetrating hits. And you know what can penetrate ap11? Heavy bolters, inferno cannons, heck most of the meduim range weapons in the game.



Quote:
Read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" if you want more info on how I think tactically.
holy smokes and jokes! OK mods I will remain calm. Dude, how about I rely upon my 28 years in the US army as an infantryman, a cavalryman, and a combat engineer? Is that enough experience to think tactically? Oh yeah, read the art of war in 1977. What year were you born?

wanax


Shaso Wanax is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 17:58   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,891
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

The one out of three is with the stealth suits. And they are great anti-light infantry units and they make you opponent mad when he can't see them and he'll start making mistakes.
__________________


Crisis 541 is offline  
Old 03 Aug 2006, 18:19   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 990
Default Re: The three firebase theory (patent pending)

Personally I've found gun drone squads to be quite possibly the biggest "do" in my army... even more useful than my PR/CIB/Array shas'el.

If you're taking tons of piranhas anyways, then good for you, you can get your drones that way. But while they might not be QUITE as great a bargin as a space marine, they're far more maneuverable than a fire-warrior, relatively accurate, and damn versatile.

Usually keep two squads of 6 myself. Whether for pincer attacks or dropping in to quickly down that basilisk or the rear-end of a russ, they've never let me down.
Nova is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Title Pending] Krieg mit Reikland MagicJuggler The Warhammer World 3 13 Jul 2009 02:27
40k destruction derby (name pending) GarethXL House Rules 5 16 Aug 2008 16:47
a Q about kroot pending new codex Nekro_Sin Tau 23 25 Oct 2005 05:29
Interesting Analysis' on the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory Tau Tau Enclave Talk 6 08 Apr 2005 02:02