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Keep those snipers out front
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Old 02 Aug 2006, 12:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Keep those snipers out front

This amy be somewhere else, but I think sniper drones should be placed in front of your line of troops, even if this means they'll have no access to cover. Reason being is simple, bait. They say "come and shoot me I dare you" :P When the opponent does, they usually get lose their shooting because they tend to forget their stealth.

This doesn't work against the same person more than once or twice, but it's worth it. Plus people tend to not know the rules so they may not realize that stealth doesn't cause target priority and may therefore not shoot at a block of troops because they think they may be forced to shoot at the "$@%! sniper drones". > (As my friend refers to em)

Plus if the drones get assaulted they still count as in cover and havea high initiative. Not bad CC for tau really. :


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Old 02 Aug 2006, 20:11   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Hehe no problem you can just modify the post I did it for you now. Also try not to double post, again thats what the modify button is for.

As for the sniper drones I prefer to either put them in the center and back as a lure or place them on the flank, either as the bait of a lure or for support.
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Old 02 Aug 2006, 21:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

i would do that because there just to many pt t stick out there
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Old 02 Aug 2006, 21:34   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

have you tried this tactic Israfel420??
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Old 02 Aug 2006, 22:48   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

I've had my sniper drones get into combat with a Chaos Lord ( I THINK it was a lord, at least, it was a Chaos HQ, so that's what I assumed it was.) before, last game, actually. Trust me. They are NOT ANY GOOD AT ALL in CC. They may have had their stealth advantage and struck 1st, but due to their low WS, absolutely NONE of their attacks hit. When it came to be the Lord's turn, he killed them all in one phase, inflicting 5 wounds on a 4 man squad. So if you are going to deploy them up, make sure they are covered with plenty of fire! I do admit that the case I described was a Chaos lord (Khorne) with some fancy stuff that gave him 6 attacks on the charge, a jump pack (he was with a group of raptors), and lightning claws. It was also in a Cityfight match with a CoD amount of terrain. The drones WERE able to rip apart the 8 man squad and inflict 3 wounds, though, (so he had one left) before he got into CC. Like I have said before, I LOVE them sniper drones
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Old 03 Aug 2006, 01:11   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Yeah, I've tried it, and it usually causes 1 of 2 results. Either the person I'm playing doesn't realize they're stealth and wastes shots early, or he does and ignores the base until he closes the gap(which I never let them do...Piranhas yay) in an attempt to kill em in HtH. Regardless, nobody realizes that they don't force target prioity, so they usually ignore the unit I place behind them too. ^-^

BTW I usually run 3 seperate firebases, but more on this in another post.
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Old 03 Aug 2006, 03:39   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Isn't it a little unethical withhold the rules of your army to gain an advantage over an opponant?
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Old 03 Aug 2006, 03:50   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Quote:
Isn't it a little unethical withhold the rules of your army to gain an advantage over an opponant?
I've never heard of this. I don't disclose my army info in the pregame because It allows people to tailor their lists if they know the precise stats of my units.

For example, "Uh, what's the toughness of firewarriors?" (So he can kit out his army around the ease of killing this T)

During game I understand.

As for snipers...well...for one, Sniper drones aren't technically snipers anyways (just overglorified pathfinder RRs with a markerlight), so I guess you can deploy them wherever you want were snipers won't go.

Second, if you feel like wasting this many points just for Bait, be my guest. Frankly if I wanted to 'Bait' an enemy I'd either use Kroot or Gun drones- Kroot for their cheapness and their ability to swing decently in CC, and gundrones because they are also cheap. The only reason the Sniper team would be a good bait target is if someone has an army kitted out for avoiding RR shots and wants the free points, OR if your opponent is unreasonably terrified of three shots that may or may not hit and can cause pinning.
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Old 03 Aug 2006, 04:41   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phausi
Isn't it a little unethical withhold the rules of your army to gain an advantage over an opponant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norsehound

I've never heard of this. I don't disclose my army info in the pregame because It allows people to tailor their lists if they know the precise stats of my units.

For example, "Uh, what's the toughness of firewarriors?" (So he can kit out his army around the ease of killing this T)

During game I understand.

As for snipers...well...for one, Sniper drones aren't technically snipers anyways (just overglorified pathfinder RRs with a markerlight), so I guess you can deploy them wherever you want were snipers won't go.

Second, if you feel like wasting this many points just for Bait, be my guest. Frankly if I wanted to 'Bait' an enemy I'd either use Kroot or Gun drones- Kroot for their cheapness and their ability to swing decently in CC, and gundrones because they are also cheap. The only reason the Sniper team would be a good bait target is if someone has an army kitted out for avoiding RR shots and wants the free points, OR if your opponent is unreasonably terrified of three shots that may or may not hit and can cause pinning.
I agree with norsehound, how is it unethical to not immediatly disclose all the rules, unless he asks??This would be the equivilant of saying "hey, it's not a good idea to shoot at those stealth suits, because you'll have to take a night fighting test". Why would you do that?? I mean if you've ever read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" it says "War is deception".

If you give away the strengths/weaknessess of your army/units you might as well hand over the victory right then. After all yor opponent is not going to volunteer the fact that his scouts have meltabombs, he is going to sneak them up to your tanks and whammo, grin as they run from its smoking hulk. It's up to you to ask what his units are equipped with. If he lies to you then that is wrong, and don't play with him anymore(smash his scouts in a fit of rage too...he deserves it. J/K ;D)

I mean it's not as if I make my opponents take target priority tests when he legally doesn't have to. I just don't tell him he doesn't have too until he starts to roll one. That way if he ignores the unit behind the stealth equipped unit for the wrong reasons(i.e. he thinks it'll force target prioity), it's not my fault he doesn't know all the rules on stealth as he can ask to read my codex at any time.

I'm not going to be like "hey you can shoot at those fire warriors without having to worry about taking target prioity test". I just let him play the way he wants to play and if he has questions, I answer them truthfully. If he starts to play something incorrectly by the rules, I correct him. If he cheats I beat him senseless with a rubber chicken(rubber chickens are funny!!! ;D) How is this unethical?(except the chicken part of course)


On to the Sniper Drones-
The reason the sniper team makes good bait is because they are cheap (80 points) they don't count as a scoring unit(expendable) and they can irritate and harrass any unit from almost any place on the board due to their low AP, pinning, and markerlight. Don't forget that their all equipped with target locks so you could theoretically pin 3 different units with one team of three. The odds are low, but making them roll all those tests can cause the enemy to percieve them as a big threat. Even if they miss, shooting at three seperate unit from one small unit is somehow scary to the average player. Which they are scary when you combine them with some Markerlight hits. Oh and did I mention that the Spotter has a higher than BS3 so he markerlights as effeciently as a skyray??? That alone makes the unit more useful(IMO) than say a 70 point kroot unit or a 96 point gun drone squad.

If you do the math on an 8 strong 96 point gun drone unit, it takes something like 8.3 to kill one MeQ. But with an 80 point sniper drone team you can kill one consistantly every turn. Not a lot of damage, but it is damage and it causes pinning checks. It's even worse with the kroot and they don't cause pinning checks.
See it's the checks that are important, not them actually failing one(although that is nice). When one small unit can attack three different units, markerlight a fourth. Kill a marine or two from seperate squads AND cause some pinning checks. That's a lot of different dice rolls, so it seems that they do a lot more than they may actually be doing(although that one markerlight hit alone is arguably worth its weight in 80 points). All this dice rolling makes the enemy take notice of that small unit over in the corner.
So it's not as if the enemy must be"terrified" of a unit for it to be effective bait, they just have to see it as an annoyance. And the Sniper Drones are excellent at that. In the end you'll find him sending one, maybe two units to deal with your 80 point snipers.
When he does, you've effectivly singled out a unit for your more mobile elements to converge on and destroy. A team of kroot aren't nearly as versatile, and neither are the gun drones. 8)
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Old 03 Aug 2006, 04:48   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keep those snipers out front

Technically though this is not war, its a game. It is only sportsmanlike to inform your opponent of your special rules. Or at least let them peruse your codex briefly before the battle. Pulling a trick like that is more than a little cheap. Stealth armor is one thing, just wait till you fight a chaos army or inquisitional force and the opponent fails to tell you about the special rules he gets with his equipment. Do unto others as you would have done unto you or however that goes. This is a game to have fun, true it may be more militarily sound not to give away information to your opponent but this isnt an actual war with lives on the line. This is a game. Sometimes you need to treat it as such.

I tell my opponents what special rules my units have before the battle, it means no nasty surprises from simple ignorance, for instance that my battlesuits can fire plasma rifles at full range even when moving, that stealth suits need a night fighting test to shoot at them, that jet packs allow a 6" assault phase move, that the multi tracker lets my tanks shoot as though they were fast. It may not be tactically to my advantage to do so but there is absolutely no need for me to pick on a player who hasnt fought Tau before and take advantage of what they dont know. Its simple sportsmanship. A little respect for the opponent can make a big difference in the long run. Not pulling special rules on them out of nowhere is just part of it.
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