Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Now that you can take a whole squad of carbines, do you?
Closed Thread
Old 01 Jul 2006, 23:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,937
Default Now that you can take a whole squad of carbines, do you?

now that you can take a whole squad of carbines is it worth it or are pules rifle's alway going to be the better choice ??
__________________
Tau wins 38 tie 2 lost 8

Death Guard win 13 tie 0 lost 2

dark eldar wins 5 tie 0 lost 1
frankthetank is offline  
Old 01 Jul 2006, 23:39   #2 (permalink)
lonely tau
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

Pulse Rifles and Carbines have two very differing, but somewhat similar roles in a Tau army.

[size=20pt]Tau Pulse Rifles[/size]
Pulse Rifles are obviously the most used infantry weapon for our army, and is often considered the best normal infantry weapon in the game, i myself sort of agree with this.

Pros
-30" range, so very long range
-high strength
-average AP

Cons
-Rapid fire, if they move then they cant shoot their full range
-doesnt cause pinning

so obviously the Pulse rifle is good weapon, but the range is where it starts to get a little topsy. even though you can get 2 times the amount of shots if you rapid fire, they can still do almost nothing, or exactly nothing. all in all the pulse rifle is great, but they are subject to adverse conditions.

[size=20pt]Tau Pulse Carbine[/size]
this weapon is the easiest to find flaws in, but is very useful at the same time. The Carbine pins troops if it causes a kill, meaning that when firing at hordey units like orks or Tyranids without synapse, they can work wonders easily.

Pros
-cause pinning
-great strength and AP for hordes
-assualt weapon

Cons
-Range
-number of shots

now while there is more to say about this weapon than the Pulse Rifle, they do share many characteristics. Strength and AP are both the same, leaving no room for arguments besides, range or pinning? another way to look at it is that carbines are more susceptible to assualt ,even when used at full range. the pulse rifle is susceptible to attack when rapid firing, but not when being used at their full range.

so all in all i would say that it is always best to throw in some carbines per the squads and hope for the best with that, even though on occasion it will be good to have a full squad of rifles or carbines.
 
Old 01 Jul 2006, 23:49   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,794
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

That can be mainly decided by what you want in the battle, but anyway, here are a few things to consider on each side:

Pulse Rifle-
+longer range
+Rapid fire, (this is both a good thing and a bad thing)
-Lower mobility
-Rapid fire, (like above, it is both a good thing, and a bad thing)

Pulse Carbine-
+Better mobility
+pinning
-Less range
-Not as many shots if the rifle is within 12" of the enemy

Okay, the thing with the two, is that a pulse carbine is for squads that will be moving around a lot, (as the pulse carbine is not rapid fire it can move and shoot the same distance). And the pulse rifle is for squads that will just sit back and shoot, (as it is longer ranged, and its range will be at -18" if they move).

The thing about pinning. Most squads nowadays have the average Ld of 8, (seeing as space marines take up over half of the total armies). This offers you only a 33.3% chance of having the enemy pinned, and the worst part for you is that you can only inflict one test per squad with carbines, (you cannot stack the tests).

It's mainly determined by what kind of squad you want, and for that it is as simple as this:

Mobility- Carbines+devilfish, (or just the carbines in general).
Standard still unit- Rifles.


Squads of 6, (Pulse Carbine):
This is a tactic that has some good things, and bad things, (pros, and cons, same as all units and wargear):

+You get similar travelling options, (12 models same as normal)
+You get two pinning tests per 12 models, (2x that of the normal maximum squad)
-Difficulty of getting the squads in the same place for travelling, (if you actually need to do this)
-It takes up two troop choices

This grouping tactic is really only for you when you need to fill up some troop slots, otherwise it limits a lot of helpful troops.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
Falstead: I don't think you can ever justify a T5 goat in a regular 40k game
Lord_Veqq has joined TauOnline.
Guest6363: SEMENATION COMPLETE
Lord_Veqq has left TauOnline.
ToastMaster is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 00:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 990
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

If you're gonna give carbines to a warrior squad, then they're probably best off not bothering to get a devilfish. Instead, take as many small squads as you want.

Bastardly? it sure is: imagine 6 squads of warriors with a few drones (off your vehicles and independant squadrons). Now imagine you're dishing out roughly 5~8 pinning tests every turn. Now think about how useful a successful pin can be.

If you're packing 12 warriors in a devilfish, you can drop them off in rapidfire range as usual, so stick witht he rifle. If they're running around independant, carbines can come in useful, especially if you like drones.

There's only one flaw with this: Plenty of armies can pretty much ignore pinning altogether. A marine captain/commander boosts his entire army's Ld. There's plenty of units who are immune to morale checks, pinning, or other such things in other armies too. Unlike stunning and shaking, troops actually get a save or immunity, something most vehicles can never even dream of.
Nova is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 01:40   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Edgewood, MD, USA
Posts: 1,231
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

I say if you have the selection and the points go ahead, if not stick with the big GUNS
__________________
[CENTER]When you wish apon a star!!! Funny!!![CENTER]
laxlover_bill369 is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 15:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 483
Send a message via MSN to Delvaurius
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

I've seen an interesting tactic done with this when it cam to unloading a squad off a devilfish then firing into a close enemy, and it works particularily well when using the FoF tactic.

Give half a squad rifles and the other half carbines. For now i'll use the example of 2 devilfishes enacting FoF, as its just easier.

Both move up into the pattented V position etc. etc. However, when you unload, send all pulse rifles toward the front and all carbines toward the back. It should work out that the front men are within 12" so can rapid fire, and the ones lsightly behing out of 12" range can still fire their carbines as have 18" range and are assault.

This tactics can be used in varying circumstances.

I quite like carbines when using firewarriors as advancers, they can jump in a fish, move a fair old distance in armour protection, jump out and still shoot at an enemy 18" away outside assault range. If they pin them they're stuck there for even longer. Of course this only works against pinnable foes.
__________________
De'lvaurius

-The Bleak Assassin-
Delvaurius is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 15:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank
now that you can take a whole squad of carbines is it worth it or are pules rifle's alway going to be the better choice ??
Frank,

Stat-wise the Carbine will always be weaker due to the obvious difference in the number of shots. That limits everything. And for some people, that's all it takes to warrant the weapon's shelf life to be infinite. However, if you think in other ways, and think about tactical applications, then maybe the weapon can be useful for you.

First of all, think of the Carbine's stats and what it allows you to do. We already had them before, but they only came in a mixed back, so it was hard to use them well. And while pathfinders have a full setup of Carbines, they're very rarely used as such since they have their Markerlights after all. Anyhow, look at your Carbine. It's an assault weapon with longer range than a rapid-fire Rifle on the move. It also has pinning, but this is the most minor point of it since pinning is very unreliable. Being a weapon that is useful on the move, the Carbine allows you to move 6 inches and fire 18 inches. That's an effective 24 inch shot, which is what normal rapid-fire weapon ranges are anyways but only while standing still. See the difference? We can maintain that 24 inch effective range while moving. The other difference, is that while rapid-fire is great at 12 inch range, what if you're going to be assaulted by normal infantry? Normal infantry move 6 and assault 6, like marines for example. That's dangerous. If you stand to rapid-fire pulse rifles, they're in range to assault you. If you move away, you lose your range. However, Carbines allow you to literally move backwards and still have enough range to hit a close range infantry unit that moves as normal infantry and still have more than 12 inches between you, to prevent an easy assault. Think of them as lures and drag lines. This isn't an ultra effective means to deal damage but it is an effective means to prolong the life of your squad against normal infantry.

The Carbine is pretty useful in City Fight, where line of sight is generally not good for your Rifles anyways in many cases (totally depends on your board of course). While the Rifle's rapid-fire characteristic is very nice here, to pump out the dakka numbers, they're not reliable since you're often moving through difficult terrain and not guaranteed to have that 12 inch range rapid-fire. That can foil an entire shooting phase for a unit. The Carbine in the other hand has that extra 6 inch range, so even if you do poorly on your terrain moves, you have a bigger buffer to keep range, be it moving towards or away from a target.

Overall, it's a great weapon. I wouldn't suggest a full squad. Maybe a squad of 8 at best with a Shas'ui. Simply because it's a nice, mobile and relatively cheap and good scoring unit with weapons that will maintain a mobile reach where Rifles cannot. Think of them as tactically flexible while moving, more so than Rifles. But remember that it's not about dealing damage.

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 15:42   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,937
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

good info guys i wish carbines FW where cheaper then it would even it out more people would have a reason to take them
__________________
Tau wins 38 tie 2 lost 8

Death Guard win 13 tie 0 lost 2

dark eldar wins 5 tie 0 lost 1
frankthetank is offline  
Old 02 Jul 2006, 17:40   #9 (permalink)
lonely tau
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

wait a minute, arent carbines free?
 
Old 02 Jul 2006, 18:41   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,794
Default Re: now what you can take a whole squad of carbines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Tau
wait a minute, arent carbines free?
He means if they were cheaper then rifles, (they're the same).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
Falstead: I don't think you can ever justify a T5 goat in a regular 40k game
Lord_Veqq has joined TauOnline.
Guest6363: SEMENATION COMPLETE
Lord_Veqq has left TauOnline.
ToastMaster is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Squad Naming and Dark Angels Squad Names. Plastic Rat Space Marines 7 21 Sep 2007 17:21
How to make FW squad with spare FW bits! Finished squad pg 2 cloaks and mohawks! Grey Tau Conversion 49 28 Apr 2006 20:01
How many Carbines in a Warrior Squad Khelben Tau 30 17 Nov 2005 10:28
Pulse Rifles vs. Pulse Carbines in a fire warrior squad? Dralok Tau 25 19 Jun 2005 01:33
How man Carbines in FW Squad (Your Name) Tau 11 16 Apr 2005 09:12