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Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 03:41   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 85
Default Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

ok i know we all have heard the argument if tau are cheesy are not or can they be power gamed. well every time ive heard this argument, its always boiled down to comparing tau to MEQs or some really cheesy list. well up until tonight i didnt think tau were cheesy, but earlier on tonight i demolished a dark eldar player with the loss of only 1 crisis suit. after the match i thought of the past few weeks and who ive played and i realized ive raped my oponents who werent MEQ (and actually i destoy black templars whenever i face them). the problem i have with tau is i look at my army on the table top (ill include the list at the bottom) , and see that its basically all tanks which reminds me of armored company, a power gaming army.

im usta losing and id rather play a good game and lose then completely decimate an oponents army by turn 4 which is exactly wut i do to anything that isnt MEQ. its not like i rules lawyer im actaully lenianent and make mistakes all the time, but it still doesnt seem to matter, i just run though peoples armies regardless.

i realize that other armies can be cheesy and can be much cheesier then tau, thats not my point MY point is; among the cheesy army lists tau is definately up there.

so are tau cheesy? yes.
dont think so? prove me wrong with out comparing chaos cheese or necron cheese to tau, i know they can be cheesy, but so can we. i want an objective argument not a compare and contrast.

btw heres my list
for tonight against d. eldar ( oh ya i didnt actually know i was going to play her tonight either, so i hadnt prepared a list for this i just used an old one i had.)

HQ - shas el TL misssle pod TA

troops - 24 FW- DFx2-TA
MT
D. launchers
d. pod
SMS
ELITES- 3 crisis suits TL mislle pod

3 crisis suits TL mislle pod

heavy- ionhead x 2 - MT
D. launchers
d. pod
SMS

railhead - MT
D. launchers
d. pod
SMS


fast- piranha
fusion
TA
D. launcher

fast- piranha
fusion
TA
D. launcher






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Old 22 Jun 2006, 03:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 333
Default Re: ok, ok i know u've heard this before, but....

A quick thought:

If you are finding that the list you are voluntarily using is utterly demolishing your opponents, and ruining any of the fun you or his or her is having, why not field a different list? ???

I do not personally feel any list to be really "cheesy", so unfortunately I cannot add any more input than that. :
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 04:11   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: ok, ok i know u've heard this before, but....

Nah, it looks tough but not cheeseball. There simply arent very many models in that list. Once things die the loss will be felt.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 05:42   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

You simply fielded an army that worked very well against Dark Eldar. The Tau are not the only race who can do so. The Dark Eldar are a tricky race to play at the best of times, and even more so against certain types of opponent.

So yes, playing Mech Tau against Dark Eldar gives you a bit of an advantage. But just because the Tau can write a pretty mean army list against a single opponent does not unbalance the list. A Dark Eldar player could pretty easily write a list specially designed to take down Mech Tau. The ability of an army list to adapt to an opponent does not make the list itself "cheesy". It is up to you what kind of lists you play. If you aren't having fun with one variety, switch things around a bit. Try a pure Static list, or focus on Battlesuits. An average Dark Eldar list in skilled hands can chew through Static Tau with little to no resistance. That does not make them cheesy.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 07:37   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: COLUMBUS, OHIO
Posts: 178
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

doesn't look that cheesy to me.
every army can min/max (to use an RPG'er term) to devastating effect vs specific opponents or even in general.
what kind of tactics are your opponents employing?
maybe they just aren't that good.
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 08:14   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 85
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
You simply fielded an army that worked very well against Dark Eldar. The Tau are not the only race who can do so. The Dark Eldar are a tricky race to play at the best of times, and even more so against certain types of opponent.

So yes, playing Mech Tau against Dark Eldar gives you a bit of an advantage. But just because the Tau can write a pretty mean army list against a single opponent does not unbalance the list. A Dark Eldar player could pretty easily write a list specially designed to take down Mech Tau. The ability of an army list to adapt to an opponent does not make the list itself "cheesy". It is up to you what kind of lists you play. If you aren't having fun with one variety, switch things around a bit. Try a pure Static list, or focus on Battlesuits. An average Dark Eldar list in skilled hands can chew through Static Tau with little to no resistance. That does not make them cheesy.
i get what your saying, but the llist i used wasnt set up for d. eldar it was just my general list for anything but SMurfs (in which case i swap missle pods for plasma and 3 ion cannons) ive used this list against IG, eldar, nids, orks basically anything that isnt MEQ and ive always done just as well.

oh and i think u guys got the wrong impression, i continue to play mech because i enjoy it very fun and tactical, i mean if i didnt like this style i would indeed change, but i just enjoy it so very much. plus a lot of people my gaming club trash talks tau so its fun to own those players sometimes. ;D
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 09:14   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 742
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

Maybe your opponents are not that great or simply have made more mistakes than you. Maybe their army list is geared towards every other army besides Tau (who knows).

Your list is tank heavy but not cheese. I'm actually really surprised that you only lost one suit. That must have been a combo or good fortune for you and terrible luck for the opponent.

Honestly enough BS 4 dark lance shots should have trashed your army, and I'm surprised they didn't. I know the missile pods and Ionhead helped (or I can guess) to bring down the Raiders, but even then the rest of the army is very fast and can engage most of your units with high strength blasters. I bet he didn't use cover to his advantage, because warp beast and wytch squads (even with a downed Raider) are savage, and hard to hurt in decent cover.

By the way what was the mission?
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 13:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Posts: 138
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lube_skyhumper
so are tau cheesy? yes.
dont think so? prove me wrong with out comparing chaos cheese or necron cheese to tau, i know they can be cheesy, but so can we. i want an objective argument not a compare and contrast.
Tau don't have the ability to have an all drop pod army that secure safe landings no matter how close to the enemy or dangerious terrain to try to land or rendering assault cannons on mobile platforms. :P

Oh yea don't forget my favorite Fear of Darkness. >
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 13:53   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,401
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

You can't compare one unrealistic game to cheese. Play 50 games and if you lose only 1 suit in all the games then say it is cheese
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Old 22 Jun 2006, 16:07   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado
Posts: 349
Default Re: Ok, I know you've heard this before, but....

That's more a "Dark Eldar" thing than your list, really.
Dark Eldar, from what I have gathered, have the hardest time beating Tau, especially when the DE come with lots of fast, open-topped vehicles. Every S5 shot has a 1/3 chance to glance, and every glance has a 1/2 chance to destroy due to open-topped. So every hit you get has a 1/6 chance to destroy DE vehicles. It adds up fast, and I've never lost, nor come close to losing against a DE opponent.

You say you've played that list against everything but MEq... Play that list against Necrons some time, and I bet you lose big. Guass eats Mech Tau (and I'm mostly a Mech Tau player myself).

Maybe it's the caliber of opponent in your area. I don't think your list is that hard to beat by a variety of armies.
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