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Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 17:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

i love stealth's i used them all the time but now that the new codex made crisis cheaper with is better for the job of use BC to bring that high volume of shots

i mean is a squad of TW-BC better then bring stealth's or what about a squad of BC,PR vs stealth's??
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 17:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?


For the basic BC the stealth is still better IMO, this due to stealth field and lower cost (then Crisis).
For specialisation the Crisis is bether, like it's always been.

The new codex doesn't change the gameplay we knew, it just ads a new option ... again IMO :P

Greetz
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 18:09   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

XV8s and XV35s have slithly different uses and abilities, which are not always factored in.

The 3 main contenders here are as far as i can see (you want burst cannon infantry death dealing ability) are:

3 XV8s with burst cannons, missile pods and multi trackers. Shas'vre has cyclonic ion blaster instead of burst cannon
=167 points

3 XV8s with burst cannons, plasma rifles and multi trackers Shas'vre has cycloni ion blaster instead of burst cannon
=191 points

4 XV35s with burst cannons, drone controllers and 6 gun drones
=180 points

Stealth suits have the advantage of survivability, and thus usually a higher damage potential in the long run. They are not good at facing fast-moving, high priority targets and taking them down in one round of shooting. I will say that however my stealth suits have never really dissapointed me, and they have a habit of killing 4 marines a turn in some games. A unit i currently use, which has served me quite well so far is the first unit. 17 shots. Thats right, one unit with 17 Shots a turn at 18" which can fly around and JSJ. Couple this with my markerlights, and you have dead units all over the place. These guys shoot so much that armour save is not really a big issue until 2+. Thats where the plasma/burst suits come in. For killing more heavily armed infantry. Space marines, storm troopers, terminators. Doest make a difference. Throw in some markerlights and you can kill a deepstriking terminator unit in one round. On the other hand of course it doesnt have the long range firepower of the missile/burst unit (6 STR7 shots, same as a unit of sentinels) or the armour-piercing capabilities.

I could go on and on and on, but the 3 units make a triangle. Whever you move to another unit, youre always better than then at something, then again he better than the other unit at something else, but this other unit is better at something than you at that point and it just keeps goin round and round.

Leaves you 2 choices:

1) Get all 3 units.
2) Pick 1 of the 3 which most suits you're style of play (reckless or conservative? to attack or to ambush? to flank or to charge?) and is best at killing the type of unit you hate the most, and have most difficulties with (theres always one unit every army doesnt like, cause the loss/gain coefficient sucks against that particular set-up).
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 21:48   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

Stealths are still better than BC crisis suits. The crisis suits can provide about the same killing power for cost but have less survivability - vulnerability to instant kill, no stealth field. Stealth teams are also better users of markerlights. And look cooler. (XV15s, anyway.)
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 21:59   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

I don't put burst cannons on XV8's... Maybe if there was a 'heavy' version, but if I'm going to fire more pulse shots it might as well be on cheaper (3 systems to fill on that xv8 after all), stealthy infiltrators.

If they ever make a 'heavy' burst cannon with better range, I'd probably be all over it. For now though, I'd rather give XV8's a missile pod: slightly better AP, much better power, and twice the range, all for 2/3 the shots.

As for the CIB, it serves me well on my commanders. Very well.
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Old 13 Jun 2006, 22:12   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

personally i use stealth suits against one of my main opponents......tyranids /gg
for that i use all manner of anti-hoarde weapons that tau excel in, stealth suits for their burst cannons and stealth fields of evil, and rather than using burst cannons and gun drones for crisis suits, i go for the regular fire-knife pattern suits.

personally, plasma rifles and missle pods are better fro crisis' cos they help taking down medium targets that stealths arent as good at, such as warriors or bio vores.

one nice time, my 5 man stealth suit squad decimated a 12 strong brood of genestealers, saving a firewarrior squad.

the only exception, is i use my deputy commander crisis shas'vre to have an airburst, he can really hurt large broods of orcs and hormys
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 00:01   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

Compare:
3 Crisis suits with Burst Cannons, Missile Pods, and Multi-trackers:
9 Pulse Shots, 6 Missiles, 6 wounds, 4 Toughness, 150 points
5 Stealth suits:
15 Pulse Shots, 5 wounds, Stealth Field, 150 points

Now, as a raw comparison, the crisis squad has as many shots as a stealth squad does for the same point cost, but gain one additional wound, one toughness, and a third of the shots are more powerful and have better range. The stealth suits get the stealth field, infiltration, and two additional models for the same price.

The question becomes how much is 6 shots at +2 strength, one wound and the additional toughness worth compared to two more models and the stealth field?

Against normal weapons like bolters, the Crisis suits win out as they pull as harder to kill, plus have more range than raw Stealth suits. Against Lascannons and the like, the Stealths win with two additional models, making them more resiliant against insta-kill weapons.

On the offence, the Crisis are superior with better weapons, and better range, as well as the fact that they are less vulnerable to anti-troop weapons. On the other hand, the Stealths gain the stealth field, making them harder to hit by any troops that are in LOS, but aren't their current targets.

Chose how you like, but I like the crisis as my mobile anti-infantry. Just about as good as mounted Fire Warriors, as the Crisis can keep up with their high-speed barrages every turn, even though their output is lower per turn.

They truely are the bane of many armies, and never run out of ideal targets against any army, unlike most of the other models in the Tau arsenal.

Anti-infantry, anti-tank, nothing gets by this trio, and is pretty cheap for it's output as well.
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 02:25   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

Quote:
The question becomes how much is 6 shots at +2 strength, one wound and the additional toughness worth compared to two more models and the stealth field?
You've forgotten infiltration. Having a few infiltrators makes it much easier to take the initiative, control the board, and funnel your opponent where you want, aside from the obvious benefits.
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 02:43   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DireStrike
Quote:
The question becomes how much is 6 shots at +2 strength, one wound and the additional toughness worth compared to two more models and the stealth field?
You've forgotten infiltration. Having a few infiltrators makes it much easier to take the initiative, control the board, and funnel your opponent where you want, aside from the obvious benefits.
True, I didn't take into account the extra first strike rules involving the Stealths, but it's kinda included with the Stealth Field, and I havn't forgotten the infiltration, as I did mention it previously.

So to speak, then the stealths are slightly better than Crisis suits on the basis that they get to typically strike first and gain four attacks, but lose that one toughness instead. This part is based on how you use the battlesuits, and how often you get charged.

On the other hand, this Crisis setup is easier to prevent charging, as it has a max range of 36", so you can pick your fights better, and not have to worry about risking being charged as much.
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Quote:
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She said she can't die! She's survive even if you roast her or bake her.
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Should we try to boil her or fry her instead?
Quote:
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It's foolish for people to go out on a night like this.
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Originally Posted by Reimu
Who?
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Old 14 Jun 2006, 03:11   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Now that the new codex is out, which is a better choice ?

the main reason i ask this is because of my list

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=27011.0

I'm try to see if i should drop the stealth's free some points and add crisis with BC,MP
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