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Stealth Pathfinders?
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Old 30 May 2006, 13:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Stealth Pathfinders?

Was just wondering, how a smallish unit of stealths with drone controllers and marker drones would work out, seems like it might actually be a reasonable plan. Usually adding a couple of marker drones to a stealth unit is a bad plan, as you sacrifice the second move that is usually essential to the short ranged suits survivial - however going full out with them doesn't seem all that bad.

4 Stealthsuits, with drone controllers + 8 marker drones = 360
8 Pathfinders in Devilfish (DL) = 181

OK, its twice the price for the same number of markerlights, but for that you get double the mobility (as there is no need to protect a tank or waste two turns redepolying), a stealth field on your 36" drones (thats a 1/36 chance of being able to even see them at max range), 33% extra firepower and model count when it comes to defense with infiltrate and deep strike on top of all that.

Is all this worth it, or is it just too expensive?
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Old 30 May 2006, 15:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

............not even worth it. Stealth need to move and get in range to fire of the BC or the FB. A full squad of 6 stealth costs 180. This is double the price for a squad that cant move (if you want to fire the Markerlights) and isnt all that impresive.

8 pathfinders and a warfish might not have the awesome stealth field like the stealth will have to Markerlight....but Stealth cannot be sitting around all game. Thats taking the point out of JSJ for stealth.

IMO.....not a smart option. I wouldent do it.
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:12   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

The idea isn't to use the stealths agressively, they are really just the equivalent of the Pathfinders devilfish (and only cost 5 points more) - just there to get the markerlighting units out of trouble. The models you are paying for are the marker drones, and in this set up they get the most additional benefits thrown in as well.

If you think about it in the context of some of the newer armies - if you were going to get a few markerdrones anyway for various units (broadsides, static firewarriors etc) then placing them with a small unit of stealths rather than the other units will enhance those drones significantly.

Sure your wasting JSJ, but quite often you may be wasting the devilfish anyway (or being forced to look for other uses).

A lot of people complain about the surviability of Pathfinders as well, over the course of the battle by replacing two units of pathfinders with one unit in this set up, you may find you even get more markerlight shots off. (Thinking about it, even at about 20" the stealth unit is just as resiliant as two pathfinder squads - and while you lose two turns firing to redepoly the pathfinders, you can do the same thing and only sacrifice the one turns shooting with the stealthfinders)
Admitedly they will be toward the end of the game rather than at the beginning, its a trade off between causing as much damage as you can earlier on for a greater chance of being able to maximise your shots when you may really need it.

More something for larger games, where you might be spending that many points on markerlights, depends how often you would take a pair of pathfinder squads normally.
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:22   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

well i dont know much about this as I am new, but isnt a greater number of fairly good units better than a few number of only just a little better.

I must admit i would rather have a load of pathfinders than just a few stealthsuits.

I know this doesnt help you in any way, but just a wee little thought.
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:24   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

Marker drones unit type is "As Owner", so in a stealth team they are "Jump Infantry (Jetpack)".
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

They get jump infantry (jetpack) but they won't usually be able to use it due to being heavy weapons - its more a devilfish movement analogue here.

-Clampy, you are generally right, but it depends on exactly how much better the unit is.
The fundamental question here is whether independantly mobile (jetpack, inflitrate and deepstrike), stealth fielded drones are twice as good as pathfinders I guess. I'm not saying that they are, I've never used the set up, however they seem like they could be worth considering rather than just dismissing out of hand (like a pair of markerdrones on a stealth squad would be).
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:44   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampy
I must admit i would rather have a load of pathfinders than just a few stealthsuits.
Tastyfishes theory is that the stealths will be much more resiliant as the max range you can see stealths at is 36", which happens to be the range of market lights. Normal pathfinders can be shot up by heavybolters and equivalent with ease (and normally will be a priority target for an experienced general).
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:47   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

yeah i understand, i think.

but stealth drones cant be independent can they, dont they have to remain within cohearence with the stealth teams, or is that what you mean.

i guess everyone has to try something out, else how else will you come up with the best strategy, i gujess in my opinion the only way you will find out is to have a go yourself.


Raptor, ok i get you now, pathfinders are cannon fodder, stealths have a slight chance over a range.
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:47   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tastyfish
They get jump infantry (jetpack) but they won't usually be able to use it due to being heavy weapons - its more a devilfish movement analogue here.
Yeah but the stealths can't move either if the markers want to fire so it isn't really an issue (being in BC range with that unit would be a bad idea, your opponent would have to be really stupid to not notice how much it costs and how easy it would be to kill). And with jetpacks they are just as mobile as pathfinders if they need to redeploy.
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Old 30 May 2006, 16:57   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Stealth Pathfinders?

Taking my favorite unit in the game....and slowing it down (because markerlights are heavy...so they cant JSJ) and then making them way too expensive.

For 360 pts I can get 36 FW, 2 Railheads, 7 Deathrains, 12 Stealth.

Lets put it this way....if you were to 4 stealth (120 pts) and then slap on 8 markerdrones so that they can benifit for having stealth? Well then the 120 ptsa of Stealth would be wasted. They would sit back at 36" and do nothing.

Sniperdrones on the other hand...have a Markerlight guy who hits on 3+ (targetting array) and the drones have stealth suits. Plus the Sniperdrones shoot from 36" so they can actually DO something where as the stealth from 36" would do nothing.

I think the 360 pt squad of 4 stealth and 8 markerdrones is a point sink. Sure...markerlights are sweet. But look at what they actually do. They help others to hit. They dont kill anything. 96 pts for 8 markerlights on pathfinders is a perfect price. 360...however...is WAY too much!
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