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Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?
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Old 26 May 2006, 21:02   #1 (permalink)
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Default Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

Myself and a fellow forumer have sent each other a few pm's lately, we've been discussing how the Cyclic Ion Blaster would work in real life. Of course, this is all just speculation, but for those of us who like to compare 40k with real life natural laws, this is interesting (call us nerds).

Now, what I am looking for is for you/us to discuss how it works, in theory. We know it has to do with radiation and ionisation, but not in detail. Do you have any idea? Do you know nuclear physics (someone call Hunter )?

Now gentlemen, discuss how the Fio created this for the Tau'va and how the theory behind it is.

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Old 26 May 2006, 21:25   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

Note, ions are particles with a charge (as in, any molecule that has more or less electrons than protons, including a lone proton or electron).

About radiation, what kind are talking about? Electromagnetic, or the kind you get from molecular decay? Because electromagnetic radiation is light (microwave, radio waves, UV, infrared, the visible spectrum, are all forms of light aka electromagnetic radiation). The kind you get from molecular decay (or in nuclear reactions) are literally ions. Alpha radiation is, if I remember correctly, a stream of protons (Hydrogen that has lost it's electrons). Beta radiation is a stream of 2 proton and 2 neutron groups (Helium that has lost it's electrons). Gamma radiation is pure energy released when matter comes into contact with antimatter and they negate/destory/unmake each other.

Nuclear radiation probably is converted into heat on contact (I don't particularly remember), but the amount of radiation required would be a lot. Organic life finds radiation so damaging because it ionizes objects it passes through, and ionized organic life is generally dead organic life, whereas inorganic objects don't really mind being ionized.

I guess it could fire a cohesive stream of Gamma radiation, but I don't think that would count as ionization. Maybe it just shoots a lot of Alpha/Beta particles at target, super-heating the target on contact (the visual effects of the gun firing could be from the contact of air and the radiation).

I think the lightning gun is the best example of an ion weapon. Lightning hurts stuff and is ionic. I just have no clue how one would fit radiation into it. Maybe it shoots Alpha and Beta particles at the target to make it really positive, then unleashes the electrons, which would jump to the extremely positive target, frying it.
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Old 26 May 2006, 21:29   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

To refresh your memory Deus:

Alpha radiation: helium cores, ie not the electrons. 2 protons + 2 neutrons
Beta radiation: a neutron in the core is split into a proton + an electron. The electron is sent out
Gamma radiation: electromagnetic radiation, with one million times more energy than normal, visible light.

Quote:
I guess it could fire a cohesive stream of Gamma radiation, but I don't think that would count as ionization.
True, it could, but that'd hardly be ionisation, nor would it be visible.

And I agree, I don't see how you fit radiation into this either...

~Olannon
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Old 26 May 2006, 21:41   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

How about a positron weapon?

A light stream of positrons would have a high kill rate for anything organic it touches, and the gama-rays it would produce when it hits the target would bypass most armour, thus the high ap for such a low powered weapon, as well as the chance of the ap1.

I can't say that this is definate, but the theory seems right.
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Old 26 May 2006, 21:46   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

Gamma radiation would not kill a target instantly though, even when they use it for cancer treatment it takes a few days for it to kill the cancer (if it does at all).

The ionised radiation could be due to the breakdown of the material used. In a similar way to depleted uranium rounds work. The breakdown of the material would ionise it, and it would be radioactive, but the sheer mass of it after it has been fired could lead to its strength through simple KE transfer. It hits the target with a load of energy at a single point, its size and mass would depend on how far it would penetrate and how damaging it could be. The ionisation of the particle could be what helps to launch it, and the radiation is a side affect of the round itself (similar to DU rounds). To fire it may work on a similar tech to rail tech. (which as it turns out is a real tech, in development to be fired in a 0 o2 enviroment, where standard munitions cannot be fired). It would give a much more immediate effect at killing the target if nothing else.

Though the gamma effect would be more penetrative. A positron weapon may work, I don't know, my knowlege on the matter doesn't strech that far.

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Old 27 May 2006, 00:03   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

A positron weapon would most certainly not work. Positrons are antimatter. A positron weapon would react with the air itself. It would be the most ridiculous flamer ever: anything it touch just dies. Period. It would have little to no range because it is stopped by any matter it comes into contact with. It would destroy any matter it comes into contact with, though. It would also release ridiculous amounts of Gamma radiation, killing anything living within a decent radius.

From what I understand of the Ion Cannon, it does not fire a solid projectile, but some sort of energy force. We're trying to figure out how that energy source could be related to ions and radiation. Which, since GW rarely cares about how badly they mangle science, is a pretty difficult task.

I still like the lightning gun idea because it involves both radiation and ions, and direct energy transfer. And it's just cool: "Sir, the Tau seem to be bombarding us with harmless Alpha particles. Don't worry, it can't get through anything thicker than 3 inches, so we're completely sa..." *ZAAP!* and the Chimera explodes as the superheated metal ignites the fuel tank.

And in case anyone's wondering, electricity causes heat through friction. A large amount of electricty (like lightning) will cause massive amounts heat in whatever it passes through, thus a lightning gun would make things very hot (melt armor, make fule tanks explode, destroy electronics, etc...). Surprisingly effective. Probably ridiculously difficult to build and implement. But it's the Tau, they can do it!
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[center]Till shade is gone,
Till water is gone,
Into the Shadow with teeth bared,
Screaming defiance with the last breath,
To spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"

Learn to shorten your reach! If your foe can come close enough to negate your striking power, all stratagem is lost, and when all stratagem is lost, the battle is lost.

Tell me now, is there a man among you here, is there no one who will stand up and try to fight? Tell me man, is there not one in all your ranks, is there no one who values courage over life?
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Old 27 May 2006, 00:10   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

I don't think the Tau did create it. From the fluff history the Tau went from primitive barbarians to their current state in like 5000 years. The sudden appearance of the Etherals at a time of Crisis when no Etherals existed before. Something or someone is behind this and I think the Tau are being introduced to new technology. The pawns in someones Chess game, grooming them for some purpose

Then again I could be wrong ;D



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Old 27 May 2006, 00:14   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
I don't think the Tau did create it. From the fluff history the Tau went from primitive barbarians to their current state in like 5000 years. The sudden appearance of the Etherals at a time of Crisis when no Etherals existed before. Something or someone is behind this and I think the Tau are being introduced to new technology. The pawns in someones Chess game, grooming them for some purpose

Then again I could be wrong ;D
The only problem I have with that is: If this other, hypothetica "controller" race has this kind of technology and better, why haven't they wiped everybody else out yet? The tau have some of the best ranged weapons in the game (pulse rifle, railgun) and if this is peanuts to whoever is really in charge, well, think about it.

Besides, the Tau would be more than just pawns- most likly knights, given the movement of the skimmers and all that.
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Old 27 May 2006, 00:18   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiznti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
I don't think the Tau did create it. From the fluff history the Tau went from primitive barbarians to their current state in like 5000 years. The sudden appearance of the Etherals at a time of Crisis when no Etherals existed before. Something or someone is behind this and I think the Tau are being introduced to new technology. The pawns in someones Chess game, grooming them for some purpose

Then again I could be wrong ;D
The only problem I have with that is: If this other, hypothetica "controller" race has this kind of technology and better, why haven't they wiped everybody else out yet? The tau have some of the best ranged weapons in the game (pulse rifle, railgun) and if this is peanuts to whoever is really in charge, well, think about it.

Besides, the Tau would be more than just pawns- most likly knights, given the movement of the skimmers and all that.
Well at least you didn't flame me . You have to admit that the background GW wrote for them gives the implication there is someone or something more behind the Taus rapid transition from what they were to what they are. Chaos perhaps? Necrons? Look at Farsight...will he start a Tau civil war?

As for skimmer technology, it is not as advanced as the Eldar and is more advanced then the Imperium. Both older races...it is somewhere in the middle.

The ehterals are another mystery, where did they come from? How did they arrive in just the nick of time? Etc etc....I think there is more to this Goldfish race then meets the gills
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Old 27 May 2006, 00:33   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cyclic Ion Blaster - how does it work?

I don't know if it could be Necrons or Chaos. Chaos has no influence over Tau (apparantly) and so why would they bother, as for Necrons, Tau tech seems to different, and it was a warp storm that protected them, the opposite to what the C'tan would use. Necrons would also rather enslave them than use them. I think that this is a similar question to the orks. Orks appear to have been genetically engineered. The Tau are almost the same (though opposites in war) they had a very fast evolutionary leap, and are now better than humans. Who knows what could of created them? I don't even think GW have decided yet (how many years have Orks been out, since day one, so 25 years+, and will still don't know were they came from).

In relation to the CIB. Could it have that high a rate of fire as a lightning gun. I mean, we are talking about faster than an assault cannon (minigun). The shots may get confused and all go to the same place. Though it would work if this could be resolved, as you said.

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