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The Burst Cannon, one size fits all
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Old 22 May 2006, 00:52   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Actually the topic title is an irony. Yesterday while assembling my new piranha I looked at the burst cannon that came with it. I then pulled out a crisis suite and tank burst cannons. Lining them up they are 3 entirely different sizes and Im not talking little differences. The piranha one is practically half the size of the battlesuit version and the battlesuit version is half the size of the tank one. All are exactly the same as the others stats wise but they are also 3 entirely different sizes. The same weapon can be so small and yet so large. But it does the exact same thing. Plus you also have the silenced version on stealth suits and then the long barreled variant thats on the manta and Hammerhead from Forge World.

The burst cannon is obviously not difficult to modify especially to compact and downsize without losing power. What do the rest of you think about this? Given how small it can potentially be I personally wonder why GW isnt letting us give this awesome weapon to Firewarriors. A mechanized squad could really benefit from an assault 3 weapon even if its just 1 a squad.
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Old 22 May 2006, 01:05   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

It could always be small molding details, nothing intentional, but just done by the sculptors because they thought the gun looked too big or small on a said vehicle.

Then again the Tau can also manufacture pulse pistols which have the same profile as rifles (minus range). They can definitely make smaller versions of their weapons.

The reason they don't give them to FWs is probably due to game balance. FoF would get a small bonus, as would carbine squads. I suppose its not available to force you to take them on other units too. Or they might just want to get away from the ready-for-anything tactical marine squad feel.
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Old 22 May 2006, 01:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Well... "Fire caste doctrine does not allow..." blah blah blah. Like the burst cannon is really a heavy weapon.

I was going to argue about recoil, but I remembered that pulse weapons are essentially railguns, and the recoil is absorbed by the gun barrel. So... I guess just fire caste doctrine stands in the way.

I guess it makes for interesting play though, even if it makes fire warrior squads uniform.
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Old 22 May 2006, 02:09   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

I'm assuming the tau have anti-recoil technology, even today there are recoiless rifles used by the military.
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Old 22 May 2006, 02:19   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Pulse weaponry (which the burst cannon is a pulse weapon, it just doesnt say it) operates by firing a small solid piece of ammo which is turned into plasma in the barrel. Its a tiny projectile and does not operate like the guns we have today which are basicly causing little explosions in the gun which gives all the kick. Because of the way a pulse weapon works there would really be little or no recoil so even a large gun would be able to be fired with relative ease.

I think its just the doctrine too but still after looking at the same old squad for hundreds of times you want to spice them up somehow. Carbines are cool looking and a lot more visually suited to the image of a Firewarrior dropping from transport gun blazing but... its rules really arent great. Its a weapon from a past age that just couldnt keep up with the times however assault 2 carbines would be overpowered.

Hmm perhaps an increase in points and then make carbines assault 2... that would make them a viable option and balance them.

However you do notice that carbines are given to Firewarriors too. Probably the reason for this is that both weapons are equal although they have different uses, well equal to the Shas that is I guess. So no Firewarrior would be any better armed or more specialized than others really but still... hmm Im not even making much sense to myself.

I suppose it comes down to game balance. Mobile squads are already deadly and the BC would help make carbines more useful and probably make things overpowered. Still it would be sweet.

Tau tech does seem to be able to be scaled down a great bit, at least pulse tech. Pulse weapons and the BC all come in various shapes and sizes but all maintain the str 5 ap 5 thing (well I dunno about the long barreled BC).

Even if the Burst Cannon and Rail Rifle were given to Firewarriors they still wouldnt have too much of that all purpose marine feel. They are far more limited in equipment even with those aditions. Such weapons would also more solidify their roles as either mobile or static squads.
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Old 22 May 2006, 02:25   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

As it is my cheif gripe about tau is our inability to take powerful weapons except on expensive models. It can be boring your right, having Pulse rifles, SMS and burst cannons all hitting as hard as eachother. Aside from the special issue weapons and the railgun/rail rifle, we dont really have any powerful weaponry that is unique, our other heavy hitting anti-meq weapons are just tau versions of a plasma/melta gun.
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Old 22 May 2006, 03:16   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

on the burst cannon topic i could say that to be fair only 1-3 could be equipped with it for about 10 points but that would be the only thing to keep it balanced. man just imagine if all of your Fire warriors could be given BCs for...5 points he he that would be sweet >
 
Old 22 May 2006, 03:28   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Lets see...

2 FWs w/ burst cannons at 15 points each:30 points

6 S5 AP5 shots a turn


3 FWs at 10 points each: 30 points

6 S5 AP5 shots a turn rapid firing.

Hm...maybe we dont use burst cannons on FW's because they just arent too much more effective than the pulse rifle for FoF tactics.
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Old 22 May 2006, 04:26   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Perhaps, 15 pts is a little steep. For my veteran Firewarriors I only made it that much because they were at BS4. For regular ones it could be 8-10 pts. Probably 10 to be more than a battlesuit version but not overpriced. Its 2 more shots than an extra carbine trooper at 18" not bad.
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Old 22 May 2006, 09:29   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Burst Cannon, one size fits all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggoth
I'm assuming the tau have anti-recoil technology, even today there are recoiless rifles used by the military.
Recoiless rifles are recoiless because they allow exhaust gas to vent backwards. They're essentially rocket launchers, except that they spin the projectile (because their barrel is rifled).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Pulse weaponry (which the burst cannon is a pulse weapon, it just doesnt say it) operates by firing a small solid piece of ammo which is turned into plasma in the barrel. Its a tiny projectile and does not operate like the guns we have today which are basicly causing little explosions in the gun which gives all the kick. Because of the way a pulse weapon works there would really be little or no recoil so even a large gun would be able to be fired with relative ease.
Tau pulse and rail weaponry still fires a projectile forwards, so by Newton's third law, something has to be forced in the opposite direction. That something is the gun, plus whoever's holding it - and that's recoil. The mechanism by which the projectile is accelerated doesn't matter - if something's going forward, something else has to go backward, and Tau weapons don't have any exhaust gases which can fulfil that role.

However, Tau weapons generally have smaller projectiles than conventional small arms (which decreases recoil) and higher muzzle velocities (which increases recoil). For equal projectile energy, the projectile-size effect is more significant, so the recoil is reduced (but not eliminated).

Anyway, on the topic at hand - I suspect that if burst cannons were given to fire warriors, they'd have to count as heavy weapons. Jetpack-stabilised battlesuits can fire them on the move, and vehicles are adequately stable gunnery platforms, but an unassisted Tau would be hard-pressed to tote even the smallest (stealthsuit-sized?) ones around like a rifle.

If GW had planned for burst cannons to be available to basic infantry, they probably would have made them heavy weapons, then altered the battlesuit rules so that they could move and fire with them (and made an exception for markerlights, which need perfect stability; and railguns, which are just too big).
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