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Help vs. Chaos
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Old 19 May 2006, 22:11   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Beaumont, Texas
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Default Help vs. Chaos

Hello all,
I have only played a couple games of 40k, and still have lots to learn. (just got all my models together lol) I am having trouble beating my friends Chaos army, i know my army lacks enough heavy support so i am trying to fill in with what i have ( well really no heavy support). I really need a good crisis team config, got punked last game.

Ok heres the run down 1500 pt armys

Me (Tau Empire)
24 Firewarriors
12 kroot
3 xv25 stealth suits (with Markerlight drone)
1 pirahna
2 devilfish (one attached to FW and one to Pathfinders)
6 pathfinders with Shas'ui
Commander Shadowsun (barely got her in)
2 xv8 crisis suits
1 xv8 crisis suit commander (used as crisis team leader)

Him (Chaos: Black Legion) sorry no #'s here
terminator squad
havoc squad
oblitorator squad
Chaos Marine squad
rhino (attached to marines normally)
Khornes berzerkers squad
greater demon of khorne
Abbadon the despoiler

Ok thats all i remember that he has, but you can get a general idea of what i face, lol.

Any help would really be appreciated, thanks!!!
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Old 19 May 2006, 22:23   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

Get some plasma rifles on your crisis suits if you don't already. 3 plasma rifles should be able to down 3 termies without too much trouble (if he has more, well... meh, AP2 will greatly increase your odds).

With the Oblits, well, remember that they're hella-slow (ever seen Obliterators get 3 1's in a row to move? I have >), you should be able to either outmaneuvere or merely throw some AP2 his way (yet again, Crisis suits could probably easily take them out without risk of return fire). Another option is to send Shadowsun at them, as she'll rip right through termies/oblits as well.

You have a 1500 point list without any heavy support!? O_O

*slaps you many many many times*

Get AT LEAST one railgun into your army, man! Come on!

Anyways, with the Bloodthirster... just throw as many friggin shots at it as you can to bring it down, as it can move fairly fast (I'm pretty sure it has daemonic flight). The Khorne Berzerkers, yet again... just markerlight them and then blast em with your FWs. In this game, I might actually suggest using your stealths to blast at the Bloodthirster or maybe Abbadon.

Also, are you sure Abaddon is legal in 1500? I thought he was 2000, but I may be wrong. I'll double check after I post this (:P).

Eh... with the rhino, just blast it with a MP or two and it'll go down. The pirahna's also an odd choice... especially with just one.

Really, I don't like either of those lists a lot... I really don't. The Chaos list seems too slow for the most part, with only a couple of fairly mobile elements (if he throws those at you first, make him regret it). Yours... well... you've got NONE of our amazing HS options!

Edit: Yeah, I double-checked, Abaddon is only legal in 2000+ point games.
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5th edition stats (W/D/L)
Deathwing: 14/6/3
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Blood Angels (NEW): 10/1/3
Blood Angels (OLD): 27/5/10
Eldar: 10/0/1
Death Guard: 1/0/0
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Old 19 May 2006, 23:03   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

Wow, I will get him for running Abadon illegally, but to answer your concerns about my army i will get some HS a.s.a.p, however all this was a gift from my wife who had no idea what to buy, she just heard me say i would like to play ;D, God i love my wife!!!

He does have some raptors in his army also but only 1 squad.

Thanks for your help maybe i can cope a little better next game.
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Old 19 May 2006, 23:07   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

Haha, can I borrow your wife?

;D

Seriously, though, raptors should be high priority (jump packs = big-o assault-o).

And hopefully you do better next game!

8)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo The Brave
Crazy Guy, you are very disturbing...

Do It! ;D
5th edition stats (W/D/L)
Deathwing: 14/6/3
Tau: 5/0/3
Blood Angels (NEW): 10/1/3
Blood Angels (OLD): 27/5/10
Eldar: 10/0/1
Death Guard: 1/0/0
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Old 19 May 2006, 23:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

Unless he deepstrikes his terminators all of his units are fairly slow, (or normal in the movement phase), and will usually not reach you until after a few turns. In this time, take care of his khorne bezerkers, these guys have the blood rage ability, and the greater daemon, (bloodthirster), will get into your ranks very quickly once summoned, (wings).

~At a loss of Heavy Support~
As you said, you are at a loss of heavy support units. Luckily, there is only one thing I can see that you would actually need them for in that list:

Obliterators:
They have great weapons, (anti-tank, infantry, and heavy armour infantry), so take some plasma to their faces when you can. However, the plasma rifle is fairly short ranged, and to get s decent, (and ranged), shot, you must get pretty close to these units. This task is normally very easy, as crisis suits are very mobile, and have the J-S-J tactic, however, Obliterators are not the best units in close combat, (mainly defense orientated with their good saves), so they will usually stick back, and shoot, (much like Tau), as the Lascannon can take down many of your vehicles down in short work.

The Broadside-
Thinking of typical obliterator tactics, I would say you need some Broadsides, and some of their world galaxy renowned 'righteous fury'. They are more defense capable then Hammerheads when it comes to lascannons, and other strong weapons, as they can get a good invulnerable save. Also, as the Broadside's main weapon is a Railgun, they are able to stay out of shooting range of lascannons, and other 'strong, and low armour piercing' weapons, while still shooting with their own:

Railgun shooting effectiveness- (obliterators)
Squad of three shooting, (shas've w/targetting array), 1.64 shots hit, (2 rounded)
1.646 wound, (2 rounded)
2 obliterators die, (the Railgun's strength is more then enough to instantly kill an obliterator)

Terminators:
These giant blocks of armour can be dealt with by plasma, railguns, and repeated burst cannon fire, (6 stealths kill 1.429 chaos terminators per turn of shooting), although stealths are better for anti-infantry, (6 stealths kill 4.86 chaos space marines per shooting turn, 5 rounded).

Abbadon the Despoiler, Famous Leader of the Black Legion:
Abbadon is illegal in all games of less then 2000 points, tell your friend this, as it might effect a few things in your next battle. When you are up against him:
Abbadon is a very easy model to kill from a distance, (especially with Tau as your army), enough plasma, railgun, and burst cannon shots and he's toast.
Do not allow him into close combat, he's deadly to everything, even vehicles, (especially with his sword). Beat him down from afar, which only takes a turn of concentrated fire.

Infantry:
As stealth statistics say, stealth suits wielding burst cannons can tear apart all space marine squads, and Firewarrior pulse fire will add quite a bit of death count to the pile.

Mr.Rhino:
The rhino is your actual first concern, it needs to be out of the picture, (this allows your units more time to shoot down infantry), you don't want any pesky marines crawling up your front line.

This pretty much covers everything in his list, (in my opinion). Good luck, and buy a broadside or two before you fight him next, (if possible).

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Old 19 May 2006, 23:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

Chaos eh....it just so happens I have a TON of experince against them. Over 50% of my games are against these guys.

If you are tooling up to kill these guys...thats cheap...but take loads of AP3. Ionheads...Sniperdrones...Vespids (though I dont recomend them at all).

Also Deepstrking Helios Els are nice to take care of some termies and Oblitorators.

Anyway... a typical list of mine is tooled to fight all armies...and does well against Chaos. Of course I only play 1850 or 2000. I dont do 1500.

So here is a basic idea of my list:

Railhead-Rail, BC, MT, LT, DL
Railhead- "
Sniperdrones (3 squads)
6 Stealth (1 FB)
6 Stealth (1 FB)
2 DF w/ DC and 12 FW (one is a sushi)
3 Deathrain Crisis (TLMP and TA)
2 Shas El Helios (TLFB, PR, HWMT)

Railheads will take care of Oblitorators...terminators...ABADDON...and use the Sub Rail Blast to take out a few CSM (sometimes it works...sometimes it dosent)

Snipers...well...will snipe. They have AP3 so they can take out annoying Chaos Marines. Plus if you stay far enough away...they can shoot at them, and most times will not be shot back (thanks to Stealth) Plus they can pick off Bloodthirtster.

Stealth...infiltrate, and pester thier Marines or Havocs.

El Helios...take care of termies and o-blits. Be sure to deepstrike so you can get a good position. Sometimes ypu might screw it up...but thats to be expected.

DF w/ FW...get up close to something you want to kill... and then FOF them!

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Old 20 May 2006, 00:00   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

WOW, thanks for all the tips guys!! This will help immensely.
I will try and get a set of broadsides and a couple more xv8's, though it may not be before we face off again. However with these new tactics i should fair well ;D!!
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Old 20 May 2006, 00:30   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

broadsides are generally a bad idea....especially when he has oblitorators.

If he shoots you with his o-blits using lascannons...say goodbye to 3 BS. Also not to mention he can take lascannons in his marine squads. Havocs can have lascannons, or missile launchers (they are only bad if you screw up the sv of 2+)

All those are bad because its an instakill.

But on a Railhead...no instakilling there. They are MUCH harder to bring down.
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Old 20 May 2006, 06:10   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

hmm, i will keep that in mind. I do plan on playing with both BS and hammerheads, so should be OK.
By the way what do you guys think of the Skyray??

Thanks again for all the help you guys rock.
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Old 20 May 2006, 11:01   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Help vs. Chaos

The Skyray Gunship would be an extremely good vehicle in your battle, (mainly against Space Marines), as it holds 6 seeker missiles that can all pierce his troop armour. However, there is a limit on effectiveness, (against space marines at least), as it is very easy to deplete your seeker missiles. Once they're gone, you must rely on one of two secondary weapons, (most aren't the best in usefulness except in numbers).

Skyray MEQ kills:
6 shots, 4.938 shots hit, (5 rounded)
4.115 shots wound, (4 rounded)
4 space marines die

This is what you can do throughout the game, (4 dead space marines on average), and it could be less, as mathhammer is not the reliable. You are now stuck with the secondary weapons, (so it's effecting the game is pretty much over, or in small amounts).

If you take the Skyray, which secondary weapon system?

Both are good weapons, but most of them will not do too much unless they are in larger numbers. A run down:

Smart Missile System MEQ kills-
Assuming you have equipped the Skyray with a targetting array, 2.624/4 shots hit
1.721 shots wound, (2 rounded)
0.668 MEQ models fail their saves, (1 dies)

Twin Burst Cannon MEQ kills-
3.936/6 shots hit, (4 rounded)
2.624 shots wound, (3 rounded)
1.002 MEQ models fail their saves, (1 dies)

It's about even on both sides, but I would think about these weapon advantages:
Burst Cannon:
  • Not a heavy weapon
  • without rounding has a better chance of killing marines then the one SMS system

However, the 'is not a Heavy Weapon' doesn't matter for the Skyray, it will move and shoot the same with all weapons.

Smart Missile System:
  • Great in city fights, and other fields of play with a lot of interfering terrain
  • Has a longer range then the Burst Cannon


You might want to see what battlefield you are using based on the stuff above. All in all, the Skyray wouldn't be the best heavy support for this game, either a Broadside Team, or a Hammerhead, it matters not at the moment.
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