[freaky_beef]

So we have all had the new Codex for a good month or two... now the question is....what do you think about the changes.

HQs....same old stuff, Ethreals became a bit more worthwhile, the crisis weapons went up in points. Nothing too exciting.

Elites...Crisis got cheaper, guns became more price. Not a big deal. Stealth on the other hand...always has been my favorite unit, and the models are awesome. Cant complain about the 2 pt Fusion blaster.

Troops... In the last codex, Pulse Carbines were (IMO) worthless to take. Only half could have them. Now that an entire squad can have them, its much more worthwhile. Advance them quickly with a DF, unload them, and just keep backing up, killing enemies and having a chance to pin. The good thing about this is that you can actually move back and shoot. The problem with rifles is that if you move back to the point where they can charge... that means you cant shoot. Kroot, its nice that the Krootox became 15 pts cheaper and are now in the troop section. Not tom mention that Kroot hounds are a 5 int now.

Fast Attack. Pathfinders, nothing changed. Drones, nothing. Vespids, are these guys even worth taking. I got lucky once....but only once. You would think that if that gun was such close range, that they would make Vespids at least DECENT in CC. Or on the otherhand the gun should be 18 inches. I know they can dish out some pain to SM...but in the end, worthless. Phiranas are pretty cool, but Im not sure I like them.

Heavy...Hammerheads are still amazing. Broadsides still suck. The Skyrail is sweet, but cant do much if there are no markerlights on the team. I know the Skyrail has some...but still, I dont think I like it. Sniperdrones...Amazing. One of my "must have" in building an army. Stealth suits, Networked markerlights, Rail rifles, target locks, pinning tests, AP 3, ST 6. These guys are awesome.

So my question is... what are your feelings about:

Vespids
Phiranas
Skyrail
Sniperdrones
and my love...Stealth suits

I need to know how you guys wouls use these things. Im pretty sure I know about as much as everyone else on this topic. But just to make sure, I want to see if someone can open my eyes to use Vespids, Phiranas and Skyrails.

Oh, and one other question. The Stealth suits come with a random backpack looking thing. After looking at the pictures of them, it rests on a stand by itself. Does anyone know what that is? A Stealth Generator? For looks?

[Fish Ead]

Vespids: Effective, but tricky to use. I reckon the secret to these lies in combined arms tactics. Mix em with a good sized kroot unit, markerlight for em and they could be delicious

Phiranas: A fun lil unit. Agressive like their namesake. A lone fusion piranha can use its mobility and smallish size to hide until just the right moment, then BAM! Dead land raider! Burst Cannon piranhas seem to be great at outflaking and harassing enemy units. And lets not forget the sheer usefulness of their drones

Skyrail: An interesting alternative to the hammerhead. Can be dangerous when combined with pathfinders as multiple marker hits gives it a frightening "Alpha Strike" where you can simple decimate a unit or large creature (wraithlord?) with a massed seeker volley. Doesnt need LoS to be effective. Overall, i still prefer the hammerhead, but I LOVE hammerheads

Sniperdrones: Very nasty against MEQs. Markerlights can be used for other units if you dont mind hitting on 4s. Stealth field makes them almost invulnerable unless the enemy closes on you. The only problem is they eat up a heavy slot

and my love...Stealth suits: As good as they ever were, maybe slightly better if you like drones. The non-upgraded stealth is possibly the best option for these. Same kills per point spent on them as a BS4 suit, but more bodies to take hits with. Fusion is dangerous to use and lessens the effect of your stealth field. All in all, I dont both with any of the bells and whistles on these and just run a squad of 6 stock models

[Vash113]

Originally Posted by freaky_beef

HQs....same old stuff, Ethreals became a bit more worthwhile, the crisis weapons went up in points. Nothing too exciting.

Actually etherials became even more useless than they were. Now they need to be in sight to provide the moral bonus, cant be a cheap solo HQ. The honor guard are interesting but you can get the same benefits from markerlight hits to up BS. Crisis weaponry pointage changed but not all of it increased my crisis commander config actually became a little cheaper.

Elites...Crisis got cheaper, guns became more price. Not a big deal. Stealth on the other hand...always has been my favorite unit, and the models are awesome. Cant complain about the 2 pt Fusion blaster.

The new stealths are funky lookin at least the old ones looked bad a**. Having the ability to take fusion blasters is cool and crisis got cheaper thats true.

Troops... In the last codex, Pulse Carbines were (IMO) worthless to take. Only half could have them. Now that an entire squad can have them, its much more worthwhile. Advance them quickly with a DF, unload them, and just keep backing up, killing enemies and having a chance to pin. The good thing about this is that you can actually move back and shoot. The problem with rifles is that if you move back to the point where they can charge... that means you cant shoot. Kroot, its nice that the Krootox became 15 pts cheaper and are now in the troop section. Not tom mention that Kroot hounds are a 5 int now.

Carbines were worthless to take and in my oppinion still worthless. Sure you get a little extra range but if your mounting them thats not even necessary and you lose fully HALF of your fire output. Instead of 12 shots you get 24 with the rifle that squad may be dead instead of still alive to be shot at more. Plus with the number of ld 10 and fearless enemies pinning doesnt help much a few carbines is all you ever need. 1 wound will still cause the check.

Fast Attack. Pathfinders, nothing changed. Drones, nothing. Vespids, are these guys even worth taking. I got lucky once....but only once. You would think that if that gun was such close range, that they would make Vespids at least DECENT in CC. Or on the otherhand the gun should be 18 inches. I know they can dish out some pain to SM...but in the end, worthless. Phiranas are pretty cool, but Im not sure I like them.

Pathfinders have changed. Their fish now helps make Deep Striking more accurate which can be an excelent thing plus rail rifles have changed. They no longer get hot so you can now effectively target a seperate target with them and not risk losing your men. Vespid are not worthless at all they are used for surgical attacks you need to use them so that there is no enemy left to get revenge when they are done shooting. Usually a full team is best and if you can 2 teams. Piranhas rock, a squadron of 3 can fairly easily toast a land raider and its pricey occupants in one round of shooting. Now thats cool.

Heavy...Hammerheads are still amazing. Broadsides still suck. The Skyrail is sweet, but cant do much if there are no markerlights on the team. I know the Skyrail has some...but still, I dont think I like it. Sniperdrones...Amazing. One of my "must have" in building an army. Stealth suits, Networked markerlights, Rail rifles, target locks, pinning tests, AP 3, ST 6. These guys are awesome.

Hammerheads have their drawbacks as they arent too cheap and not as accurate as broadsides can be. BS 4 twin linked is better than BS 4 though the submunition rocks. Broadsides certainly do not suck. A team of 3 will crush any tank that even peeks at them. Also its the Skyray and its not meant to do much offencively its a support unit that can provide mobile markerlights, the only ones we have in the army and as a boon it has seekers and a defencive system. Sniper teams are ok but at their low model count they really cant take fire and a deep striking enemy will rip them to shreds. Ever seen what an assault cannon and flamer template do to them? Got to be careful with the snipers they arent so powerful that they can hold their own like a Hammerhead they need support to draw fire and again pinning aint that great.

So my question is... what are your feelings about:

Vespids
Phiranas
Skyrail
Sniperdrones
and my love...Stealth suits

I need to know how you guys wouls use these things. Im pretty sure I know about as much as everyone else on this topic. But just to make sure, I want to see if someone can open my eyes to use Vespids, Phiranas and Skyrails.

Oh, and one other question. The Stealth suits come with a random backpack looking thing. After looking at the pictures of them, it rests on a stand by itself. Does anyone know what that is? A Stealth Generator? For looks?

There is always more to know for instance its Piranha and Skyray. No unit in the Tau army is useless especially now with the new codex. Many units just need to be used carefully. The Vespid are like a fine arrow they need to be held back until the moment to strike, the Skyray is the Tau equivilant to artilery suporting the front with indirect no LOS required fire and mobile markerlights. The Piranhas are cheap fast and light answers to highly mobile armies and can be armed with the tools they need to take down armor. The Eldar ruled in terms of sheer speed with their skimmers and were one of the few armies that could outmaneuver us. Now we have the piranha which can keep pace with the fastest eldar vehicle and with a melta weapon and 2 str 5 shots and upgrade to BS 4 can have a good chance of bringing those skimmers down and thats against the fastest opponents we see imagine the potential against the slower armies out there.

Sniper Drones are an excelent support unit and with the stealth field can be a very annoying unit. An invisible or stealth army is now highly possible using units like the Skyray, SMS armed Devilfish, Stealth teams, JSJ crisis suits and sniper drones to effectively make an entire army that is either out of sight all the time or requires a night fight test to even be seen. Now thats some serious hassle for any opponent.

I was never a fan of stealth suits and still am not really that much of a fan of them (and btw that thing is a drone controller, says so in the codex : ). They are a good unit but all in all I find that they dont perform that well, their higher numbers make them harder to keep safe via JSJ and to get up close with their guns means well being close and the stealth field while helpful isnt perfect and with 1 wound and T 3 they arent that resilient. Id rather stick with Firewarriors and tank secondary weapons. Now that they have Fusion Blasters they get a new role which is to hunt tanks but even then you only get 2 at a max of BS 4 without markerlight support and that also means you have to get very, very close. They have options and can be a great unit but I dont value them nearly as highly as more than a few people on these boards who would probably swear by them.

[Aunshasta]

Originally Posted by freaky_beef

So my question is... what are your feelings about:

Vespids
Phiranas
Skyrail
Sniperdrones
and my love...Stealth suits

I need to know how you guys wouls use these things. Im pretty sure I know about as much as everyone else on this topic. But just to make sure, I want to see if someone can open my eyes to use Vespids, Phiranas and Skyrails.

My feelings:

Vespids - I don't like them. But it's not because they don't have their place. It's because I only field TrueTau. No Kroot in my army, that means no Vespids too. I'm a purist (and I suffer because of it, but it's fun) How to use them? They are a finisher. After squads A and B have reduced numbers down to at least where making morale checks is going to start coming into play, then these guys swoop in and hopefully land a killing blow (because yes, they definately want the have vast number superiority in the final CC).

Piranahas - I don't have any yet, haven't built an army with one, but I simply LOVE the idea. I like fast reacting armies and you can't get much faster than this! The options and the new tactics many have already put down on this board means that these will see lots of use! Also, I'm not a huge fan of pathfinders or (see above) Vespid, so that fast attack slot is wide open for these guys (and gun drones - which these guys also have!)

Skyray - 1st...not rail..ray. If it had a railgun or a big gun of any type I'd give it to ya, but as it doesn't you're actually better trying to make it a Skyhead than a Skyrail imo. And "Skyhead" is not endearing. Anyway. I really like the options of this tank. It's a little tricky to use, but I'm trying a few different things and we'll see how they go. I don't think people give it enough credit for it's total firepower. 6 seeker missiles, but let's ignore those. Next up it has 2 markerlights AND either SMS or 2 Burst cannon. Let's face it, that's a lot of shootie shootie originating from one model. I love the fact that the Mobile ML's keep it playing even after a turn-1-alpha-strike of missiles. The look on the opponents face is priceless when he has to divert firepower (and not a little bit) to put down a tank that's harassing him and causing all sorts of ML mayhem, but has already fired it's "big gun" missiles so to speak. Neat option tank for those commanders who like trickiness and a little finesse and not just "run in guns blazing" tactics.

By the way, I like the new broadsides, too. That is to say, they don't suck when I use them.

Sniperdrones - Again, haven't had a chance to buy these yet, but they look like a very good unit, especially if you like "guns blazing" tactics. It's a shame, 3 heavy slots, and 4 good units to pick from. *sigh* I think you already hit most of the benefits I would get from these in theory.

Stealthsuits - I love the changes opening up what stealthies can do. Again, being one that likes a little more finesse there are literally a ton of options now, considering the size of unit you take, the guns you outfit them with, and the options you take (potentially different for each suit!). Makes for what I consider a VERY elite squad. Yes. I like them alot.

Conclusion - Even moreso with the new codex, I think that alot comes down to how you put your army together and the overall tactic you use. You have to look at how the whole performs. It's great saying "You have to take a commander lone so that he gets IC status!" But that doesn't do you any good if the rest of your army is set up to be static and he is supposed to be a little closer (like to use fusion blasters...) Without a good mesh, the "goodness" of any given unit kinda diminishes. That was the case before and it's even moreso now with the many more options we have. But as far as I'm concerned, that makes the game better.

And there was much rejoicing.

At least from...
-Aun'Shasta
Living in the Fish

[Nova]

vespid strike me as.... ... eh.

The only thing they have going for them is the AP3 on the neutron blaster.
But even then, the unit's expensive, extremely fragile, and will get itself assaulted and wiped out easily due to the blaster's low range. If I don't mind losing the AP3, I can get hardier, CHEAPER units with Jet instead of jump packs, which can deepstrike, with longer range, slightly higher accuracy and pinning.

They're like assault marines... but with a slightly better gun... in exchange for the statline and CC attacks... and save... and the grenades... In other words, either they're paying a lot for unimpressive abilities, or the smurfs are paying very little.

Piranhas... My only issue with these is that like with everything else except broadsides and hammerheads, they've very little range. We're very lacking in our 36~48 range... do you really NEED yet another burst cannon?

However, they're actually a pretty good deal. Dirt cheap if you factor in drone cost, actually. If we could equip something like an assault cannon they'd be a bargin even at 80 points.

Skyray hasn't won me over. It takes a heavy support slot and still ends up more expensive than an ionhead. If you don't move up a little to use the networked markerlights you wasted a slot and points that you could've used on a warfish, ionhead, or any other vehicles, getting yourself those seekers anyways.

sniper drones are fun. Expensive though, despite being a bargin compared to the individual systems, especially with stealth fields factored in. But they do their work pretty well.

[freaky_beef]

Vespids... I still dont see the use in them Vash113. I know "everything has there place. I find that Vespids are the ONLY thing that dont have their place. They may be fast to capture objectives quickly...but other than that, to me, it seems they have nothing. I know they can finish off a damaged squad of marines fairly well, but a full squad of marines will take some luck! All in all, if they are simply a support unit, they will find no place in my army. If I am supposed to hide them until the time is right, it somehow never works like that for me. Im not saying support units are bad, it just seems that I cant keep them hidden until I want to use them. My opponents will find these guys. Vespids die quickly. Way to pricy for points.

Phiranas...I like the idea. Fast moving vehicles, hence fast attack. I like the options they have, and I like it how they can be tank hunting tanks! Can do some serious damage to infantry as well. I do not like, however, the fact that they are a squad. If I were to take multiple Phiranas, then if ONE got a may not move....the entire squad has to a. Wait for next turn to move, or b. Leave him behind and it will die. It seems all an opponent has to do to bring these guys down quick is just get a HIT on these guys. Its like...as long as you shoot them they will die. Due to the light armor, it will easily be damaged by almost anything, and due to the opened-toped part... it will be easy to score good results for damage. Very fragile. I know these guys could be considered a support unit, and they are pretty good. But as long as someone shoots this squad, they will be gone quickly. If I dont move the squad when a Phirana has a "May Not Move" then that entire squad will be targeted because penitrating hits can be scored. If I leave that one Phirana behind...then that one is dead. It sucks! (Question, If I were to disembark my drones from all my Phiranas... would that mean the drones would become a squad?)

SkyRAY (Aunshasta, there you go)... They look pretty good. Its nice to actually have markerlights mobile. (Im not too fond of Pathfinders) Two networked markerlights and 6 missles are a very nice combo. Some additional fire with BC or SMS, and this can really be a good tank. My only problem is this. I always use Sniper Drones and 2 Hammerheads. I love my Drones too much... and there is NO WAY I could take only 1 hammerhead. My HH and Drones are just too awesome.

Sniperdrones... Still use them. No beef

Stealth... No Beef, My Favorite!

Can someone also make this clear for me. Networked markerlights. Say I have a squad of Sniperdrones. The Markerlight dude hits with it. The drones then shoot. Does one drone benifit from this markerlight... or do ALL the drones benifit?

[Neyals]

I noticed that Aun'shi is not in the codex anymore. Does that mean we cant use him now or what?

He was really good its a bummer if he has been made redundant

[Vash113]

Thats clearly stated in the codex, a single UNIT gets the benefits of a markerlight hit and a networked markerlight can help its own unit.

Whats so hard to grasp about the Vespid? Yes they are a support unit, so what there are a lot of them. You named one use for them yourself, to finish off a damaged squad. The Vespid arent meant to be used to rip through an entire squad of marines piece meal. Not every unit in the game has the durability and power of a tactical squad one must accept that and use a unit as its supposed to be used. They do have their place its just sad that you cant see it.

Vespid can be used in a multitude of ways. Most notably:

• Extremely fast scoring unit to take objectives and table quarters
• Lightning attack unit to finish off a weakend squad or flank the enemy to get at softer heavy weapons
• Lure, they are an expencive looking unit toting anti marine guns. This can easily cause them to be a high priority target for an opponent and be used to draw them into a trap.

Those are just 3 simple uses for them I could write a multi paged tactica on the uses of Vespid and I might well do that.

[freaky_beef]

Originally Posted by Vash113

They do have their place its just sad that you cant see it.

Hey man... its not sad... its not a bad thing either. This is a thread that I want people to discuss about uses of vespids, phiranas, skyRAYS, and Snipers. I have a good list that I stick to all the time. If I want to incorperate Vespids.... its going to take alot of talking from others....and thats what I want. So go ahead Vash113! Give me some help man!

[enoch]

Vespids

I believe you are right, they are absolutely worthless. Either give them an 18" range or better CC abilities or make them Jump infantry.

Phiranas

A burst cannon or fusion blaster that moves at 12" for that cost is too exspensive. I wouldn't even bother with them unless you need fusion blasters and you better add a targeting array or it is a very expensive but weak shot that just wiffed and is now in close range.

Also, I cannot see these being useful unless in numbers.

Skyray

First you have to roll to hit with a markerlight, then you have to roll to hit again (1/6 miss), then you have to wound or possibly save? How much are you paying for the missiles? I think the ability to wipe most models (assuming you hit is nice), but I do not like limited ammo. In my opinion, this weapon would only be worth it if spending a markerlight counter meant auto hit and possibly auto-wound unless save is made. You are spending 10 points and possibly throwing it away if that misses or does nothing. And what is that thing going to do when it is out of ammo? It is an ignored platform after ammo depletion.

Sniperdrones

Even though I do not have them I want to play them when I get a chance. I love their low cost however I do not like the fact that they have to stand still to fire markerlight and weapons. I was hoping that markerligh would be change from Heavy to Assault 1. ML as a heavy weapon seems counter to what technology they would have. I mean, we have jets in present time that can fly in circles and paint targets with a laser.

and my love...Stealth suits

One of the most underused units the Tau have. I think this is the roup that you want to arm leaders with a markerlight and a targeting array. Now you can paint targets with a 67% accuracy at 5 points less than a marker drone and avoid long-range fire. I actually think they are better scouts than Pathfinders. I love their new look and the ammount of firepower they can lay down is impressive and cheap. 30 points for a jumping busrst cannon that is considered nightfighting when targeted? How is that not awesomely good!?