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Help Against Iyanden
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Old 15 May 2006, 01:56   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Help Against Iyanden

I played an Iyanden army yesterday and lost handily (I had 3 firewarriors and a weaponless, immobilized devilfish left at the end of six turns).

He was using:
Guiding Farseer
Avatar
2x 5 wraithguard w/ warlock in Serpent w/ twin brightlances
2x Wraithlord with missile launcher
Falcon
Vyper w/ starcannon
Vyper w/ brightlance
3x Warwalkers w/ 3 starcannons and 3 scatter lasers

I was using
2x Shas'el w/ plasma/fusion/multi-tracker
2x Deathrai suits (seperate units)
6x stealths
2x 12 firewarriors w/ shas'ui w/ markerlight
20 kroot w/ shaper
8x Pathfinders w/ 2 rail rifles, shas'ui Devilfish
Railhead w/ burst cannons
2 Broadsides w/ ASS and 2 shield drones

I made a few tactical mistakes, and had a bit of bad luck, but I still flat out lost. I tried to expand out of my quarter early in the game, but was steadily pushed back. I managed to kill one squad of wraithguard, a wraithlord, two war walkers, both vypers, the avatar, and severely damaged one waveserpent (immobilized it after he forgot to move it, and blew off the bright lances).

What suggestions do you have in terms of tactics? I don't want to change the list too much because it does well for me against other opponents.

On the bright side I fared far better than the Swordwind and Tyranids that he obliterated to a man with few casualties earlier that day.
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Old 15 May 2006, 02:34   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

That;s alot of big stuff...

Ok, against Eldar, as far as i know, NEVER use Broasides or Hammerheads. They're just overkill. Swap them in for some Ion Heads.

Kroot are absolutelly useless against this list, so I'd leave them at home.

Devilfish for your Fire Warriors. It is crucial!!!

You might want to think about leaving those Rail Rifles at home, they're not spectacular, especially against this list, and you get 2 extra Markerlights.

I've never tried them, but Piranhas with Fusion Blasters might work a treat against Eldar...

I know you said you don't really want to change this list, but with all these, you can probably get more Ion Cannons!


Now for tactics. I'm no expert against Eldar (Orks, maybe ), but I have some idea how to beat them down. It seems his list is balanced, with fast and slow units. If you can manage to take down his transports and faster units, ignoring the Wraithlords, who can only pop off one rocket launcher per turn, you should effectively take the Wraithlords out of the game. Now, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pay 125 points for one rocket launcher a turn.

Wraithguard are very short ranged units, so it's smart of him to put them in transports. If you can get them out of their transports early enough, they should be useless for half the game.

Vypers. These things are hell against your suits. They will take down your Commander with relative ease. Missile Pods, however, swat them like bugs.

Warwalkers are even more dangerous against everything, packed with alot of firepower. They have some massive downsides though. First of all, they are slow. Second of all, they cost heaps, and can be taken down by the weakest gun the Tau have to offer, let alone a Missile Pod. Weighing in at 100 points each (with those weapons),even if you manage to immobilise 1 of them, it will immobilise the entire squad, unless they want to leave one of their comrades behind.

I can't really tell you much about Wraithguard, due to the fact that I don't know the rule about their gun (if anyone can help me without giving too much away, that would be great), except that they are very expensive.

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Old 15 May 2006, 03:16   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

Actually thats an extremely tame list he brought. He actually took scatter lasers and missile launchers instead of starcannons & bright lances, thas unheard of.

Just from looking at your list though, I have no trouble believing it got owned by an eldar player. The problem is simple. You have a good section of your army tied up in expensive low wound count models, namely criss/stealth/broadside suits. Eldar eat high cost units for breakfast, an eldar force will eat through those 3+ saves like it was cardboard armor. For example, 1 BS4 starcannon can easily take down a broadside or crisis suit in 1 turn. A bright lance has a 83% chance of killing a suit outright. When I use my eldar and see my opponent putting down expensive infantry (ie with wounds and a save) units, I can confidently say I will win the game before we even deploy.

Against iayaden, use lots of fire warriors to take down his warwalkcers/wraithgaurd (S5 is very nice), and 3 hammerheads w/ ion cannons or rail guns (railguns will be better against the wraithlords). Perhaps some piranhas too, but try to avoid using any suits unless their purpose allows them to die quickly (such as a deepstriking anti-tank crisis used to take down those warwalkers).

His armies strengths are high strength low AP weaponry and the toughness of his units. His drawbacks are a rediculously low model count and a fragility in his non-wraith units. Therefore your best bet is to take as many models as you can and as much highS low AP weaponry you can, in order to overwhelm him and kill off his 3+ save units quickly.
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Old 15 May 2006, 05:13   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

through personal preference against this army i would say scratch the broadsides and pathfinders and replace them with 2 ionheads w/ BCs and normal HH goodies. after that i would take out most of the kroot (a squad of 10 without shaper is nice) so they can infiltrate behind your opponent and shoot at the vypers or assualt the wraithguard so you can make a piecemeal attack (aka getting both squads of wraithguard in combat while yopu kill everyhting else. then when the kroot die concentrate fire). instead of deathrain suits you should take Plasma and Burst cannon w/ multi tracker. other than that i could only say just destroy his only bits of mobility and run circles around him.
 
Old 15 May 2006, 06:41   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Tau
other than that i could only say just destroy his only bits of mobility and run circles around him.
Exactly what I said. Only problem is you can't immobilise Wraithlords...
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Old 15 May 2006, 06:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

and T8 actually makes them TOUGHER than AV10... especially with those wounds...
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Old 15 May 2006, 09:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova
and T8 actually makes them TOUGHER than AV10... especially with those wounds...
It does, but it doesnt quite make them as tough as AV 12, seeing as S5 can harm them. The only difference is that melta wepaons (2d6 AP), AT grenades etc don't have an effect... :'(
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Old 15 May 2006, 23:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

I'm planning to drop the rail rifles, they were only there because I only had six pathfinders. The deathrain suits were probably my most effective units (killing the vypers and two warwalkers). They're the most effective method I've got of taking down his skimmers, and I have to knock out at least the wave serpents, or anything in my army can be targetted and killed at will by deploying wraithguard. I'm keeping the kroot, because this is a take all comers army, and they have proved invaluable to me in many games. The broadsides and pathfinders are experiments. I didn't use them under the old codex, but ASS and the new markerlight rules are worth trying out. Initial impressions were good for the pathfinders (did very well in two games, but rolled horribly badly against Iyaden), and mediocre for the broadsides (who seemed to perform best as damage sponges).
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Old 16 May 2006, 00:50   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

I am still using the 3rd edition codex so here is what I take and it works 75% of the time.
[size=20pt]
KEEP ALL SUITS OUT OF THIS FIGHT!!!!!![/size]


Take 3 x 12 man Firewarrior teams w/ Bonded, Leader, Shield Drones, and DevilFish
Kroot w/ Shaper, 3 man Krootox team
1 Hammerhead w/ Railgun and Burst Cannon
1 Hammerhead w/ Ion Cannon and Burst Cannon
Etherealw / Honor Blade (Keep a Fire Warrior teams Devilfish nearby. When it gets too hot for him to be there put him in the Devilfish Have the drones for the ethereal join a falling Firewarrior team.)
Drone Squad
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Old 16 May 2006, 03:29   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help Against Iyanden

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadCrisis
I am still using the 3rd edition codex so here is what I take and it works 75% of the time.
[size=20pt]
KEEP ALL SUITS OUT OF THIS FIGHT!!!!!![/size]


Take 3 x 12 man Firewarrior teams w/ Bonded, Leader, Shield Drones, and DevilFish
Kroot w/ Shaper, 3 man Krootox team
1 Hammerhead w/ Railgun and Burst Cannon
1 Hammerhead w/ Ion Cannon and Burst Cannon
Etherealw / Honor Blade (Keep a Fire Warrior teams Devilfish nearby. When it gets too hot for him to be there put him in the Devilfish Have the drones for the ethereal join a falling Firewarrior team.)
Drone Squad
That might work for you, but I think Deathrain's are the most effective unit aginst Eldar. As long as you can keep them out of LOS, they should be fine. Just take down the most dangerous stuff first.
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