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Markerlight/ Seeker procedure
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Old 11 May 2006, 20:45   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

So the mklights don't "Call" the seeker missles now. They "Allow" the msl to be launched by the vehicles.

In this fashion, if i light up a predator with 4 lights, I can have my war fish that's doing its thing over there launch 1.... no kill... okay, the path finder now moves around to get LOS for 2nd turn deep stirk and launches another... okay... still no kill.... now the Rail head nukes the cultists with the pie, and lanches one at the pred. Kill. Now my Ion head doesn't need to launch its missle.

This is great! we can conserve Seekers like the thrift penny counters that we are!
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Old 11 May 2006, 20:49   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Mklight/ Seeker procedure

Markerlight hits give you a counter. Since you exchange this counter for the effect, including launching a seeker, you essentially never have to worry about missing unless you roll a 1 after firing the seeker.

This is no different from the old codex, though. The main difference is that instead of the "single model" aiming bonus, you give a slightly lower bonus to an entire unit.

Or get to use any of the other uses on them.
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Old 11 May 2006, 20:59   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Mklight/ Seeker procedure

Yea, it worked the same last time. Their was nothing stating that you had to launch all seekers simultaneously.
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Old 11 May 2006, 21:00   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Mklight/ Seeker procedure

thing is, it was not clear in the old codex whether or not you can declare 2 seekers.... see the effect and fire off 1 more and another if you need to. Now you explicitly can.

so you don't kill a vehicle twice.
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Old 11 May 2006, 23:15   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

Hrm... wish I had the codex in front of me. I might have a hole in the reasoning, but I need to verify it.

As 10 point, one-shot weapons, now only 2 per vehicle (bar skyray) I think we deserve the ability to fire them one at a time. Is there any other unit that can fire multiple single shot weapons?
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Old 11 May 2006, 23:30   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

it says it quite plainly, in both codexes.

1 markerlight counter = 1 seeker. Not two, not 3.

However there's no limit to the number of counters used this way or the number of seekers used per turn.

So technically with a full squad of pathfinders that ALL got their markerlight hit in, you'd have the ability to launch 8 seekers, more, even, if you have other M.light hits from other teams. As long as you had 8 or more seekers, you have no problems doing this.

Your army list, however, with that many points spent on just lights and seekers, might have a few!
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Old 12 May 2006, 00:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

The discussion is not about how many seekers you can launch with one light. That is one.

Rather it's about when we must declare we are using the seekers. In the old codex it made intuitive sense to declare all at once how you were using the marks, as it was part of the shooting of a squad, which is all conducted simultaneously.

Now we have the markerlights stuck as counters, and can expend them when we wish. It seems that we can fire one seeker... nope, didn't work... fire another... got it! Instead of just firing 4 seekers because you really wanted the thing to die.

There may be a problem with this, as there seems to be a contradiction in the rules. Here are the conflicting passages:

From Seeker missiles, pages 30-31:
Quote:
Ordinarily, the vehicle carrying the seeker missiles has no control over them and cannot launch them itself. The mechanism is remote and responds only to markerlight users.
From Markerlight, page 29:
Quote:
- To allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit. This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5.
The Markerlight entry seems to say that the vehicle is doing the firing. If that were the case, all seekers to be launched from a vehicle must be declared and launched simultaneously, since it is "shooting... resolved normally" and shooting from any unit must all be simultaneous. This would also mean that you must fire all other weapons on whatever was carrying the seeker to be fired, now or never.

Of course, this is ridiculous, but that's what the rules imply. Interestingly, it also says that missiles "may also be fired if the vehicle has suffered a Crew Stunned vehicle damage result." ...but not a word about crew shaken.

So, if you are the kind of person who thinks that terminators do not come with terminator armor, since it doesn't say so in their profile, seeker missiles might have just become a lot worse. If you're normal, it just goes to show that GW's rules writing/codex system produces very poor results.
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Old 12 May 2006, 00:45   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

Stunned is worse than shaken, having the same effect, plus loss of movement.

Arguing that it wouldn't launch on shaken is like saying that deadman switch on trains will work if you release it upon dying, but not if you release it upon losing conciousness.

However, while its conducted normally in terms of what the shot's like, you can't forget that there's a few other things involved.

1) Its using a markerlight counter. These, the codex says, stay until either used, or the shooting phase ends. There is nothing to stop you from applying that BS bonus to different units (matter of fact that's the whole reason for pathfinder squads; helping the whole army with multiple M.lights), or launching multiple missiles.

This means that each markerlight counter counts as a seperate firing; you need not resolve ALL markerlight effects as soon as you get the hits, and seekers are just another effect.

2) The vehicles only CARRY, as you've quoted, the seekers. They have no control over them; the guy with the markerlight does. In other words they're remote operated, they just happen to be carried by bolting the missiles or their launch-rails (if any) to vehicles. So they're not fired by that single vehicle (which would mean they're a volley) , but rather by individually controlled markerlights.

3) When they say shooting is resolved normally it means, more than anything, that the attack comes from the direction of the carrier vehicle. Your spotter is the one that hits the firing trigger once he's got a confirmed lock. Its otherwise a normal shot, in that you roll to hit, roll to wound (or armor penetration for vehicles of course), and then check for armor or invulnerable saves if applicable.


Imagine you carry two little RC cars in the back of your truck, and give the controllers to your kids. The only control you have on these is: A) you bought them in the first place, and B) you can drive the truck around so that they'll come out either in the yard, or once you get to that pond over there, or while you're at that intersection going the other way.

In the same way, other than the fact that the vehicle is carrying them for the M.light user, and thus gets to decide which way the thing will be flying in from when the marker tells it to hit precise coordinates. But the vehicle does not get to decide when it fires, or if it gets used at all, and has no hand in its telemetry. All of these are handled by another guy.

By this logic the skyray would fire all its missiles at once. And technically it does. HOWEVER, it has a target-lock system, which allows it to target things individually, and thus bypass this issue. Any other army wouldn't be able to do this, but we have the systems to let us.
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Old 12 May 2006, 00:50   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight/ Seeker procedure

Oh I totally agree. It's just that the rules are not that clear. I'm not going to argue it further, though.
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