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Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!
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Old 08 May 2006, 06:36   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Gotta begin by saying just how helpful people on this site are. I'm really still a pretty new player and I've gotten so many good ideas from your sharing. Thanks!

Now one of my friends has gone and gotten himself a Necron squad and was trying it out the other weekend. I'm scared. We both are playing in a campaign and are bound to face off sooner or later (at least I'm on the other side of the island at the moment).

So I got to see his army and he used two necron lords. One with a CC weapon and res orb attached to a unit of warriors. The other had some teleporty thing (Veil of Darkness I think...) He used one to teleport the other group and basically suddenly showed up in rapid fire range with a full unit of 20 guys with nasty guns. Next turn he leads with that nasty CC guy and charges the remainder of who he just shot up. Additionally, he has these nasty melee things (that if you failed some test you could only hit on a 6!?). He also has 3 skidbike guys that move like a jetbike and have something insane like 3 shots each at 36" range. I'm fearful. He also has a couple of the bug looking things and a monolith (although I'm not nearly so afraid of the monolith and I don't think he will use it against me.) He also has a small group of Immortals

I don't have many units, since I'm just starting really. I have a few crisis including commander. 3 broadsides, a hammerhead, 2 devilfish and 24 firewarriors (yes, I FOF alot), an ethereal (Aun'shi actually), a pathfinder team with some Railrifles, a stealth team, and tons of drones. I don't ever use kroot, being a purist. I have no vespids, no sniper teams, no piranahs, and no skyray. We'll probably be playing in no more than a 1500 points game when we do.

Any tactics or suggestions of how to handle them with what I have? I'm a little concerned that my "training" against Space Marines and Tyrannids won't help me here much. What do you think I should priority target in his army? They're fiendish hard to kill off.

Help!

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Old 08 May 2006, 06:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Unless his necron lords are on those big floaty platforms (destroyer I think) they can be instagibbed by a solid shot from your railguns. It'll work on regular destroyers though.

Most other things need S8 but don't necessarily have many wounds: I think even the gauss-cannon destroyers only have 1 (but high toughness). So you don't need to worry about instakills so much as just landing a wound through the armor.

I've read the codex but haven't played against them, but they seem to be a shooting version of the space marines. Just don't think regular guns won't hurt your tanks, because every gauss weapon is a stronger version of rending: you get auto-glances even if not strong enough on a 6 as I recall.

Note: its possible I'm wrong, though. I think the codex I read was 3rd ed...
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Old 08 May 2006, 07:02   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Jetbike things with nasty guns = Destroyers
Bigger versions = Heavy Destroyers
The ones that make you hit on 6s are Flayed Ones I believe but Im not sure

One thing to remember is that Necrons are slow with a capital s. The majority of them arent going anywhere quickly and those that can are few in number. So speed is your ally. They cant do WBB if the entire unit is dead and there are no others of that type nearby enough. Use those broadsides railguns to take down the Destroyers.

Keep mobile and remember mass of fire doesnt work against them usually. Kill all his fast units and smaller units first, get rid of anything that can keep up with you and threaten your armor first. While even the most basic gause weapon has the potential of hurting you its by no means certain so keep mobile and shoot down anything fast and nasty first. Warriors are slow so let them slog around trying to keep up with you all day just make sure that the things who can actually keep pase with you are long gone.

Necrons can be nasty but much of that in my experience is from not knowing what they can do and being surprised by it. Once you understand their limitations they arent nearly as big a problem. Plus they always have phase out. Once their more nasty, speedy things like wraiths, flayed ones, destroyers, heavy destroyers etc are gone you can focus on cutting down the warriors enough to phase them out or simply evading them long enough to win with the kills you have made or capturing objectives with an obtuse and little targeted unit like gun drones while the warriors try in vain to chase after crisis suits, mounted FW squads and Hammerheads.

Try taking a look through the codex and reading all the effects of all their wargear and rules. When you know that you will know what he is capable of and will be prepared for it.

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Old 08 May 2006, 13:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Vash is right...to a point. Kill the fast stuff and run away from the slow stuff works...except for the squad that's teleporting around the field. You can't run away from a deepstrike. So that squad with the lord is going to be your number one problem, and your number two target. That's right, number two. First, 20 rapid-firing gauss weapons are going to shoot down a skimmer EVERY time. So leave the devilfish at home, except for the pathfinders' fish...and don't spend more than 80 points on that one. Maybe you can use it to entice him to veil over and kill it early, sparing the rest of your lines a turn of pain. If he doesn't take that bait, use it to harrass the flayed ones...make them constantly walk around it while eating S5 fire every turn (don't detach the drones, they'll die for no purpose!)

Do bring the hammerhead...get this...I want you to land it. Land it with its back to the board edge and build your defenses around it. "skimmer protection" does nothing for it, nothing, once the destroyers are dead. So why take the risk of an immobilized result?

If possible, take the plasma rifles on the broadsides, with multitrackers. You're going to want those 9 armor penetrating shots when the veiled squad warps in.

Take 8 pathfinders with maximum rail rifles. The priority for markerlight support goes to the broadsides.

Leave the ethereal at home. I'd say put him in a maxed out squad to give them the BS boost, and don't tau actually have initiative on crons...hmmm)...but 20 necron warriors could possibly wipe the squad out in a single turn of shooting and make the whole army run.

Take all of your suits (including HQ) in a helios configuration. 3 AP shots per suit is nothing to sneeze at, and the only thing they can't outrun is the flayed ones....so stay away from those, and JSJ the warriors. As long as you're more than 12" away at the end of your turn, you'll be fine. And don't venture off away from your firebase until the veiled squad is dealt with. That one's going to take the massed fire of an entire army to "handle".

Take drones, and maybe a small stealth team to harrass the flayed ones. The idea is to drop them in behind them and shoot them in the back. It really puts them in a bind. Either they turn around and charge, which moves them away from the firebase that they should be assaulting, or they take it and keep moving, which gives you free lunch. Just don't exect to pin them Chances are, if it's just drones, they'll keep moving, but if it's a stealth team, they'll turn and charge...90 points is powerful bait...especially if those 9 shots dropped a model.

So, here's the strategy:

Deployment:

Refused flank. Pile everything into a corner to limit the veiled lord's deepstriking options. Keep the hammerhead against the edge to protect that rear armor against the destroyers. Array the broadsides and pathfinders in front of the hammerhead. Surround this with a line of fire warriors (4 squads of 6!!!). Between terrain and friendly models, you should be able to keep that veiled squad more than 12" from the hammerhead, and 20 chances to glance is much better than 40. At the same time, that tank is going to be a powerful inducement for the enemy to warp in the veiled squad and let you deal with him piecemeal (ok, that squad is 1/3 of his army, I know...). Deploy the pathfinders' fish and maybe some drones or stealths on the other side, hoping to either spread his forces or flank him. This could also give you an early shot at the destroyers if he elects to hide them from your lines early on. Nothing funnier than a squad of destroyers sitting around doing nothing beacuse they got charged by gun drones!

Turn 1:

If you have LOS, take out the destroyers with rail guns. JSJ the suits for potshots at any necrons (preferably flayed ones) within 30". Move the fish to impede the flayed ones' advance. Send any drones or stealths that aren't DSing after the flayed ones or the destroyers.

Other early turns:

As long as the squad with the veil of darkness hasn't jumped in close, concentrate on taking out the flayed ones, but don't spread your forces out. Anything in the firebase that can't shoot and still end its turn in the spot where it deployed just doesn't shoot. If the enemy is smart, he will try to spread you out before veiling in. If you stay concentrated, you will cut his squad apart, and he probably knows it. He's made a mistake if he doesn't have the res orb with the veil. So stay together and kill off the flayed ones and destroyers. Unless his veiled squad jumps in.

When the veiled squad arrives:

When those 20 warriors with the lord who has the veil of darkness show up, it's going to get ugly. They can pretty much choose one thing and squash it like a bug. If it was me, I'd choose a pair of broadsides (you pretty much have to have them as one pair and one monat, since you have the tank in the third slot. DON'T put all three in one slot). Whatever he shoots, other than the tank, is pretty much dead. If he gets 40 shots at the tank, it's dead. If he's outside 12", pray that he targets the tank, it will probably survive, since he should get one glance for every 10 shots.

Now, it's your turn. First, fire the submunition. With 20 warriors packed around the lord, that subround is going to do some damage...as long as you don't miss. Expect 2-3 kills. Then fire the pathfinders. Expect 2 markers and one rail rifle kill. Give those markers to the two broadside teams, if they're inside 12" and both still have at least one model. Otherwise, give them to the helios suits. Fire the helios suits next. Expect 6-7 kills from 4 suits without markerlight support. Fire the FW. Expect 2-3 kills. Probably, at this point, the enemy is down to 6-7 models, plus the lord. You've hurt his feelings, but you're not done. You haven't yet fired the broadsides. There's a reason. If your firing to this point was unusually successful, you stripped him down to 0-2 meat shields. And you want to save the rail guns for last, in case you get a clear shot at "da man himself". Most likely, though, he's still going to have a good number, so you'll just end up killing more warriors with the broadsides. No problem. You'll kill 14-16 models. 4-5 won't get WBB unless he has the orb (which you didn't mention?), so expect to face 10-11 models next turn.

At this point, he'll know he's been kissed and will do one of two things. Either he will veil away in a panic, or, more likely, he will try to charge something of yours, like some suits. If he does neither, and just takes another round of shooting, you'll kill him on your next turn...easily. So he'll probably charge. If he does, pile in all the fire warriors that can reach. They aren't much good for anything other than wounds...but they get 2 attacks each on the charge, and they have I on crons (other than the lord, of course), and 36 attacks (assuming 18 FW are able to charge)will drop a couple models.

Now he'll probably teleport them into a fresh deepstrike, just to keep from getting bogged down forever by a mass of FW bodies. If he DSs into rapid fire range, you've got him! He should be down to 8 models by now. Pour everything into him, and he's going to drop.

Now the bad news. This took so long that by now the other 2/3 of his army has walked into range (unless your harrassment tactics were enough to draw them away). You've taken a licking, probably given worse than you've taken, but your force is spent, and he's got a couple of turns to have his way with you. At this point, you're probably going to shift to straight "victory point denial". If you have good dice rolls and make zero errors...you'll get away with a draw.

Good luck! ;D
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Old 08 May 2006, 14:42   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

March10K, in your scenario, you had the Fire Warriors charging? Why would you do that? With Markerlights you can have 18 regular shots or 36 rapid fire shots hitting on 2+ and that will drop even Necrons. Str 5 beats out str 3 any day of the week. You should drop more with pulse fire than swinging your combat knife.
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Old 08 May 2006, 15:36   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

good dice roll + zero error = probably a draw~.....

sad thing is... I agree with mach 10k's assessment..... I can't think of any better strategy to deal with this threat.... and I just cannot see killing 20 power armored body in 1 turn without fail... especially after he gets to choose a unit of yours to die first.

but there has to be a better way... must think~
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Old 08 May 2006, 22:42   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

As i use a very Anti-Mrine List i know all too well the terror of necrons. Our low AP and high strength weapons which kill a marine dead don't do the same to the Cron, they just stand back up. :'(

Very much the Tau Bogey team. Best bet is to go static and really overload on fire, masses and masses of the stuff.
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Old 08 May 2006, 23:41   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechar
As i use a very Anti-Mrine List i know all too well the terror of necrons. Our low AP and high strength weapons which kill a marine dead don't do the same to the Cron, they just stand back up. :'(
Not with the low AP weapons, because that denies him his WBB roll.
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Old 08 May 2006, 23:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian
Not with the low AP weapons, because that denies him his WBB roll.
Nope. Unless the Tau got rending weapons in a White Dwarf, we do not have anything that will deny the 'Crons their WBB roll. The only way to do so is to remove the whole squad.
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Old 08 May 2006, 23:55   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Inevitable showdown with Necrons...help please!

Correct, negating armour saves only stop WBB in close combat(power weapons et al).
Double strength negate it at range, but can be cancelled out by the lord with orb.

So we basically have the fusion Blaster and Railgun that can instant kill a necron warrior...only the railgun working on destroyers. Even then the Orb can cancel both out.
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