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Tau in cityfight
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 14:59   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Tau in cityfight

First I have to say that I don't mean the cityfight rules from the Cityfight Codex, because I don't know them. The problem I have is a friend who really is a master at using cover and denying line of sight on a gameplate crammed full with cityfight terrain. To avoid all the cover saves (he claims that a unit even then gets a save when it is not exactly on the covering terrain, but still in contact with it, so that means a lot of cover saves) by markerlights, especially Scouts. But then the other problem is the thing with the line of sight. How should my markerlights mark any cover save down, when they haven't even a line of sight? When his units get into line of sight, it usually is one more turn and then close combat. Not too good when fielding Tau.
So have you any ideas how I could counter his strategy and using the terrain to my benefit (with lots of indirect firing fishes maybe?)
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 15:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Hey man,

I played a lot of City Fight; Tau and City Fight just went hand in hand at the time (third edition then). It's quite a different game when you approach the smaller board and you have so much line of sight blocking and practically cover everywhere you look. But that also meant difficult terrain and area terrain in general, so that should be playing a huge role in your battle and how fast those marine boys are walking around.

In my experience, when playing city fight (or a huge terrain game with standard 40k rules), AP becomes much less of an importance at long range because you will be denied it most of the time. At close range, AP can play a huge role in the game, but at that point, as a Tau player it's merely the turn before assault in general. But you can do certain things to help prevent that.

~ Load up on the mobile Dakka ~

A couple of key units:

Stealthsuits - Pack them into your list. He's in cover, well so are you, even in the open! You can move up and spray his Scouts to death and then hop away. He will take normal armor saves typically against dakka, but when you are hitting Scouts, dakka works perfectly fine. Even if you're punching marines, you can spray them with burst cannons and then hop behind some terrain or around a piece, to ensure assault isn't going to be possible (remember, assaulting through difficult terrain is much less than 6 inches typically!).

Warfish - The new possibilities with the Devilfish are going quite useful in this kind of match up. Skimmers can ignore terrain and just hover over it instead if you want. If he has no big nasty guns to pummel you with then it's no big deal. So you can literally use this to your advantage to move over any terrain piece of the board, using the Hover rule (ending a move over impassible terrain) and pop off anything in range of you, with your SMS and Burst Cannons. If you're shooting, he can see you too most of the time anyways and if he's looking for assault typically then the Fish will do you well. Boy I wish we had this thing back then...

Kroot - Kroot are your best friend (right next to Gun Drones). The reason is, they're cheap and they are a match made in heaven with cover. Park them all around in cover, near any possible assault path. They are a fence, if you will, so that anything that comes close to you, out of sight, will also have to shoot or attack Kroot before they get a chance to get near your guns. In cover, Kroot can hold up very well against attackers in assault and you may even get some rapid-fire before hand. Definitely put some Kroot in there (several small bands will help make a good assault fence in assault paths and you can lure assault to them with stealths & drones).

Gun Drones - Drones are awesome in this match. You move around, you have great range, and you can easily intercept any infantry unit that has normal movement speed on foot (ie: marines). Gun Drones can harass them, pop one off now and then and basically just be a problem in general--and if he gets too close to something, you assault him and let him sit with you in combat for a turn, while you prepare a kroot rapid-fire stage near him, or perhaps a kroot assault. Winning assault isn't what you're doing--prepping his squads to be shot to ribbons is what you're doing.

Fire Warriors - Small groups of Fire Warriors are more useful than large ones. If you're caught in assault, you're not shooting and you're dead. This is one of those places that the pulse carbine was actually a perk, before 4th edition made rapid-fire more ideal. The reason was, you could move away from your advancing foe, and still have good enough range to pepper them with 18 inch shots, instead of being out of range with 12 sometimes. Just like the gun drones, you can take small units of Fire Warriors and just spread out across the board. Hug them to cover and out of sight and have them ready to move up a bit with 18 inch range shots to help pop some heads after a little Kroot fence is assaulted. If you prefer rifles, you will find yourself not moving and not moving is how your infantry dies in terrain based games--you need to keep moving. So as much as some may hate them, carbines are actually worth their salt here (not in mass supply, but having a few is simply great). If you feel confident that you can kill things within 12 inches of you without being stuck in combat yourself, then stick to the pulse rifle.

Any mobile skimmer with a SMS - Hammerheads will not be doing much without line of sight, but they're still an A13 skimmer that can spray BS4 SMS all over the place and punch down things at closer ranges if they're out of cover. You can use them along with Warfish to just pummel anything within 24 inches with a lot of good dakka power, regardless of sight, regardless of anything. And don't underestimate the support of a Sky Ray in this match. It may be even more useful than a Hammerhead in some regards.

~ We have a new Commander option ~

We can now take the Airburst Fragmentation special issue weapon for our Commander or any Shas'vre class XV8. This is actually a great weapon for City Fight because it gives your mobile XV8 a change to have an attack with good range (18 inches), a means to drop a cover-save ignoring template attack on anything there without the need of line of sight. Now, against marines this isn't very impressive. But against other armies with T3 and lesser saves, this would be an absolute nightmare since they would be hard pressed to ever target him while he dropped that template. So perhaps that's something for you to explore if you wish.

~ Markerlights ~

I would suggest you forget markerlights really. They're stationary unless you can take a Sky Ray. Now a Sky Ray would make an excellent city fight vehicle, because it can reduce cover and because it can use an SMS weapon to keep a stream line of damage flowing to things out of sight. Stationary lights will either have few targets, poor targets, or simply be assault bait. If you can see them, they can see you. And you really don't want to just sit around and wait for something bad to happen. I would focus more on the units described above than markerlights.

~ Use the Terrain ~

If it's granting a cover save, it's probably also going to be area terrain or difficult terrain in places as well (or at least it should be). You can use this to your advantage because models attempting to move or assault through difficult terrain have a much harder time doing it. Make sure your assaulter is following the rules for attempting assaults through terrain, because typically it will fall short most of the time. That means, you have a lot more time to shoot and flee. There's nothing wrong with running away and shooting as you go.

If he's using terrain to sneak up to get you in assault, simply put something there to hold him with. Kroot or Drones do well here as they come in plentiful and cheap supply. Once in assault, you can come out of your cover if it's suitable (ie: not going to get you killed) to fire upon the unit in assault after it finishes. And also, allowing him to assault is a sure fire way to stop him from advancing so that you can either get away, or get deeper in cover, or allow a single turn's worth of movement for a key unit to get within range (such as one of your skimmers or stealth suits). Kroot taking an advance and GunDrones as well can help you to stall his advancing units just in time for you to butcher them when combat ends with shooting attacks (instead of allowing him to get into the best cover he can... draw him out with combat, or lures).

-- So pack in stealths.
-- Pack in some SMS skimmers.
-- Get some Kroot prepped.
-- Field some Gun Drones (small squads work great!).
-- Don't stop moving; stationary infantry will get you trapped and killed.

Good luck to you sir

Cheers!
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 16:03   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Lots of SMS and Seekers, also you need a lot of XV's. Run up (IE roll to see how many inches you move, as you actually WANT to move less than six, but as much as possible, no jetting here) to get LoS, shoot like heck and then jump 6" back. Also, try using a Kroot squad to lure him out, or even better, take a monat XV-8, load him with a Flamer, Shield Generator, Retro-boosters and Stimm Injectors, load him into a lure for CC, let him charge, stick it out, then vector out at the end, leaving him stranded in the open for your shooting phase. then make sure you have a lot of extra firepower so you can wipe out the squad that's assaulting. He's only 79 points! If you want a bit more effective, go with a BC for the extra 4 points. Shoot after jumping.
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 16:40   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Thanks for the really detailed advice. Well, so far my army is a pretty static one. The only tank I have is a devilfish and I don't have any stealth. I thought stealth suits weren't that good against marines (I'm fighting them most of the time), but they seem to be used quite often against marines. I think I'll go with an army, of a pulse rifle FoF-squad and some smaller squads with pulse carbines. Would flamer/burst cannon-crisis suits be a good choice for that fight?

That monat crisis tactic looks fine, but that crisis is very vulnerable against energy fists, istn't it?
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 17:31   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid A
Would flamer/burst cannon-crisis suits be a good choice for that fight?
I would avoid it. The idea is to keep your precious firing units like XV8's away from the marines as they advance. Flamers put you right in range and any suit that is in range to use a flamer is in range to be assaulted and killed. I'd look more towards things that increase your number of shots at distance, such as the old plasma/missilepod combo, or burstcannon/missilepod combo. Missile pods are helpful no matter what, so matching them with another weapon that is helpful is a good idea (plasma would be reliable to pop marines at closer ranges if they came near you).

I would very much suggest you look into buying 4 stealth suits. Pretty cheap and extremely useful in nearly any game you will play - especially games like this with heavy terrain use.

Quote:
That monat crisis tactic looks fine, but that crisis is very vulnerable against energy fists, istn't it?
Far less vulnerable than a Crisis suit using a Flamer. Your Commander is an untargetable independent character so long as he's behind other units of yours. Also, since his Airburst Frag attack requires no line of sight and has 18 inch range, you can easily move up, fire, and move back again, always keeping a comfortable 18~24 inch range between you and your target so long as you keep moving. Stay way more than 12 inches, and he cannot assault you with normal troops. However, if he has assault marines--that's another matter. If you're fighting assault marines (the ones with jump packs) then take a Helios suit (plasma and fusion) and tear them up really fast.

Anything is vulnerable to a power fist in close combat; avoid combat and avoid the fist. Feed him Kroot & Gun Drones while your suits play get away.

You may want to start using your static elements in your current army to be more mobile. Sitting around in heavy terrain boards will reduce your ability to deal damage with your limited guns, and it will only make it easier for your opponent to surround you or sneak up on a flank where you cannot protect yourself. Constantly moving around will help you to adjust to keep him coming to you from where you want him to, or at least a more difficult way, and extend the life of your units.

Cheers!
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 18:58   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Oh I don't like Fireknive, it's kinda unappealing to me. And I think I won't use burstcannon plus missilepod; the missile pod has twice the range of a burst cannon, so the additional range would be wasted when you have to go on 18" distance for the burst cannon. I think I will go with Helios. Or rather Burning Eye; it's safer and my luck with dices is not so mentionable.

I thought about using the static elements like this: get two broadsides and eight fire warriors at a position where they have the biggest possible free area. This creates a firebase and a part of the table that can't be crossed by the enemy without losses and acts as a bait. The rather mobile elements surround the firebase that they can shoot at possible attackers at the firebase every turn (e.g. Firewarriors will never get out of 24" to the firebase).
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 19:55   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

If it is area terrain, the piece is a large thing. The indevidual twisted scaps of metal represent many, many scraps of metal. So, while in it, they can gain a 4+/5+ cover save. However, you have no LoS to them when the closest model is more than 6" in the terrain, and they have no LoS to you.

But with barricades and other individual pieces of terrain, the unit only gets the 4+/3+ cover save if (at least) fully half the models are hiding behind it.

So one model behind the barricade and the others not = no cover save.

I'm working from the rulebook here, not the cityfight codex.
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 20:06   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Ok, and when fully half of the models just touch this individual terrain or area terrain, they don't get any cover save? We had this situation:

---------|Space Marine
Bunker|SM Plasma Cannon
---------|SM

He said that the bunker provides a 3+ save and he could use a 4+ save, because he touches the terrain.
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 20:42   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

If he is behind or in a piece of area terrain that partially interferes with LOS, he can claim a cover save from shots crossing it. If he is in front of it, then he can not. In the case you note, he gains no cover from standing in front of a bunker.
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Old 23 Apr 2006, 20:49   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in cityfight

Yea, he seems to be cheating you pretty badly.
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