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New Battlesuit equipment
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 22:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default New Battlesuit equipment

So, I just read through my copy of the new codex, and I'm curious as to other people's thoughts on the new stuff, specifically the Special Issue equipment.

Obviously, with the new Shield Drone rules, the Iridium Armor, and the Stimulant Injectors, it's possible to deck a single Crisis suit out for survivability. If you're a prick, you can even toy around with the Majority Toughness rules and make a squad of three like this, +2 shield drones.

But I guess the question is, is this worth it? Mon'ats are great, but only sort of. They're good at tank killing, unless the tank is well-supported and -positioned. They're good at character-killing, unless the character is well-supported and -positioned. They're good at harassing lighter infantry, unless...well, you get the idea. Any good support, and they're basically just pricey, flashy suicide troops.

So it seems to me that they haven't improved much in this role. Exposing onesself to a lot of heavy tank fire is as dangerous as it ever was, as most heavy tank fire is 2+ anyway, and yeah, the new SD rules are great for soaking up a few hits, but it's basically like fielding three terminators, two of whom can't shoot or assault, but with a 4+ instead of a 5+ invuln. They're still not really all that handy. And honestly, I'd pick the termies over a single crisis suit just about any day, especially with broadsides in the arsenal.

The Cyclic Ion Blaster is another thing. Is that really that handy? It seems as though the only things it's really better at killing are guardsmen with carapace armor and other Tau; you can't rely on the 6-rolls at all.

Think of it this way. You shoot some standard guardsmen with 5 CIB shots from a commander or crisis with BS 4. Of those, three or four will probably hit. One or two will wound. One or two dead guardsmen.

With a burst cannon, two will hit, and both will probably wound, failing some horrific luck. For fewer points, and you can have many of them, which makes them exponentially more effective.

For killing carapaces, I tend to go with missile pods anyway. You can use them from well outside a guardsman's range, which means you don't have to worry about their plasma. (It's impossible to guarantee that, using a cyclic ion blaster, you would be out of range in time; 18 inch range, jump back 6 inches, you're still 24 inches away, which IS in range of a Plasma gun). YEs, you can utilize cover, SOME OF THE TIME, but killing only two (three, tops) in a big freakin' mob per turn, it won't be long until you're surrounded and destroyed anyway. Markerlights improve the CIB marginally, but I'd still take 3 Pulse hits over 5 S3 hits on guardsmen who aren't going to be saving.

Fragmenters seem more useful to me; they essentially negate that really, really irritating Guard doctrine that gives them +1 to all cover saves (I played a game where somebody infiltrated his +1cover guards into 4+ cover. I couldn't touch them). They are, thus, REALLY good at killing entrenched infantry. This seems a valid use of points, whereas the CIB seems more like a trinket to me than anything else.

I really like the Stimulant Injector. It's somethign that seems like a genuinely cool idea to me. The Vectored Retro-thrusters seem like another trinket; they could be a cool escape mechanism for Mon'ats and, when paired with Iridium plates and SIs, make for some more survivability, but still. More of a trinket, and an expensive one, at that.

So yeah. I'm not too impressed with a lot of the new stuff. I'm curious as to what you all think.

...andGO.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 00:17   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

Since I play my XV8's as tankbusters and heavy infantry killers, the new weapons really didn't do anything for me. I'd use them as IG/Tau/Tyranid weapons, but I'd say the same thing for the Burst Cannon and flamer. If you're killing hordes, now you have a trade-off between number of shots or weapon strength. My FW's are around for that. The new gear is good, especially if your Commander is near a Sniper Gun Drone unit, his bodygaurd, or anything trying to markerlight. The Iridium Armor isn't my forte, however. I half and half my XV8's maneuverability and weapon's strength, and losing that gauranteed 6" Assault move is crippling. I just take the Shield Generator and hope for the best. The Ejection System is cool/silly and could be good for Commanders not using a bodygaurd.

And why did they knock down the Ion Cannon's strength -1?! Space Marine CONSPIRACY.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 00:26   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

i actually quitelike the new codex. with all of the new upgrades and such you can deck out a special unit (usually commander) to give him nearly any kind of specialty (accept close combat but then there IS farsight) with the new units we have better hordey/marine killers and such

all in all i think that we have gotten th better end of the deal.
 
Old 10 Apr 2006, 04:12   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

Oh, I never said that I didn't LIKE the new codex. I do. I love the upgrades to the Shield Drones, the sniper teams, the vespid, and so on and so forth.

Can I ask you how you refitted your Commander with the new upgrades, lonely tau? I'm curious to see how you took advantage of the new upgrades.


They actually didn't knock the Ion Cannon's strength off at all. Best of my knowledge, it's always been S7AP3, and so it remains. Also, it's a lot cheaper now.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 05:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

Was it really always Strength 7? I could of swore it was 8, but my old Codex is a pile of ash now, so no point in arguing. The Special Issue stuff really helps Commanders and bodygaurds 'play their roles' better, regardless of what it is. Need a hard-to-kill Commander good at tank busting? You got it. Hyper quick light infantry/swarm killer? Done. Or you can keep a real balanced 'jack-of-all-trades' XV8 around. Having said that, I believe an XV8 is only as good as the other XV8's supporting it, so it means a lot to properly deck out the bodygaurd or elites, even if they can't take Special Issue stuff. All that Missile Pod/Plasma Rifle/Multi-tracker only business is over.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 06:41   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

IMO i think the special issue gear is great but it all depends on what roles your Crisis Teams take along with commanders depending on how you like to play it's not worth it or it can be a great investment. All depends on your play style.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 10:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

Well, let me put this to you then, get a very nice shiny model, and make it look imposing, give him:
Iridium Armour, 2 shield drones and stim injectors, long ranged guns like the plasma and missile pod. This guy costs a ridiculous amount, but I know the regular opponent I verse would fire everything he had at this guy (with the odd sly comment of - he gonna kill you, or the "dare" tactic, you'll never ever in a million years touch him - psychology is half the battle ) and it's basically amount to squat - with no ap2 weaponary in the necron arsenel, ouch!
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 11:23   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

Ion cannon in 3rd was S7 (read the old book very recently). They added new weapons but I don't recally any changes whatsoever to the old ones (statwise anyways).

Maybe that CBI wouldn't look so useless (at least, it looks rather bad) if it had pulse rifle range? Failing that it could probably make a great drone weapon (not twinlinked of course)
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 11:24   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

I've already organized the special issue wargear into stuff that I will never take and those that are a necessity.

Those that I'll never take
:
Airbursting fragmentation projector- seems like it would be good, but I really hate guess range weapons, add that it has such a short range and I can't justify the high point cost to myself.

Cyclic Ion Blaster- at first I thought "5 shots thats insane!", then I realized that with a low strength, short range and costing as much as a marine, I would rather have either the missile pod or burst cannon.

Command and Control Node- its not worth losing a hardpoint so that my tau can use his ld to fire at a different unit. if it had allowed them to use his ld for any thing or had been a hard-wired option then I would have taken it.

Positional Relay- simple answer is that I don't deepstrike, and we have rarely if ever played a game where part of your army starts in reserves.

Ejection system- I try to never have monats and I try to always take a bodyguard for my commander. This means I can't take it. maybe if I played in a small points game, say 500 or 750, but that hasn't happened in a long time.

Failsafe Detonator- I don't feel that the tau should commit suicide, even for the greater good. the fact that you must be willing to sacrifice a living model so that the other one or two can get away just doesn't sit right with me. having said that, this is probably the only wargear that I won't take because of fluff reasons. otherwise its really good.

Iridium Armor- the save is cool, but the random assault move isn't. with my luck I would roll a 1 and be within assault range because of this, and my regular opponents usually have power weapons or fists.

now for the special issue that I would take:
Vectored retro Thrusters- many is the time when I have failed to notice that a single marine was within range to assault next turn. its usually late in the game and it just slips your mind. now I have the ability to remove myself from combat, which is so good. the only possible concern is that I want to give it to my commander who already has all three hard points filled. going to have to break down and remove that missile pod.

Stimulant Injector- what can I say but wow! not that fluffy, but still the ability to have feel no pain on your commander. this is like the iron halo for my marines, it always gets taken.

as far as the non special wargear that has been added since the last codex:
Advanced Stabilization System- only good for broadsides, but so good on a broadside. I just need to figure out what I'm going to use to represent it on mine.

Targeting Array- I have mixed feelings on this one, on the one hand you get a better balistic skill, on the other hand you lose a hardpoint. I usually only use this on my stealths.

Bonding Knife
- now that its an actual wargear item, its not wort it. kind of wasn't really worth it under the old rules, but now that the bearer has to stay alive it kind of is a waste of points. only to be taken if you have some extra points to make up.

Marker Drone- The most worthless of the drones. for the cost of two marines each, you have a markerlight that the unit taking it can use. in exchange that unit now can't move or they will lose the ability to fire the markerlight. the only unit in the game that I would give this to is my pathfinders, just because they are the only unit in my army that might stay still long enough to fire it once.
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Old 10 Apr 2006, 11:33   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Battlesuit equipment

If command and control node was for all morale tests it could be really interesting... Isn't shadowsun's link that way instead of the standard node?

I do have a suggestion for your advanced stablisation modding...

This might sound kinda dumb but how about oversized feet/legs? Granted I don't think you get spare feet in a kit, but maybe those nice square shoulder-plates for the firewarriors could be used as extra armor? Any tiny little tubes/springs to add extra jacks/suspensions on the backs... maybe the tubes on the lasguns or something...

Just that the lower-legs/ankle sections look rather flimsy, so it might be a good spot to add the support
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