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Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 14:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,794
Default Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

Elites:
When in use?
Tyranids-
Against tyranids it's a good idea to have multi-shot, strong guns that can pierce hordey armour, in this case:
Crisis suit w/ flamer, burst cannon, multi-tracker- 42 points, and can cause a ton of damage to hordes, meaning you can field three of these for a little over 120 points.
termagaunt kills:
Basic flamer template covers 8-10 termagaunts, (all are hit), 1.5 burst cannon shots hit, (two rounded)
the flamer wounds 6.56 termagaunts, (seven rounded), and the burst cannon wounds 1.668 termagaunts, (two rounded)
Therefore, 9 termagaunts die, (assuming you're within range)
Against toughies, (carnifexes, hive tyrants), we have this:
Crisis suit w/ fusion blaster, plasma rifle, targetting array, and hard-wired multi-tracker- 72 points
With fewer shots you might want to have the extra BS, (targetting array). This can pierce all tough armour, and the guns are tough enough to get around their high toughness.
Necrons:
A good upgrade for taking down necrons, is pretty much the same as taking down tyranid monsters, (as their saves are the same), and they'll usually win their armour saves if you don't pierce them.
Necron Kills:
0.656 plasma rifle shots hit, (1 rounded), 0.666 fusion blaster shots hit, (one rounded)
0.834 plasma shots wound, (1 rounded), 0.833 fusion blaster shots wound, (one rounded)
2 necron warriors die, they have a 50% chance of standing up again, (probably only one will stand back up)
Against necrons, your best tool is the plasma rifle, as it gives you steady armour piercing shots up close, and a good all around ranged shot.
Orks:
Against orks you should use the same gun upgrades as if you were fighting termagaunts, (flamer, burst cannon), as they have bad armour, just like cannon fodder gaunts.
Ork Kills:
flamer template covers 6-7 orks, (all hit), 1.5 burst cannon shots hit, (2 rounded)
flamer wounds 4-5 orks, (50%), the burst cannon wounds 1.312 orks, (1 rounded)
So around 5-6 orks die, pretty good for one battlesuit, that only costs 42 points
Chaos space marines/Space Marines:
Crisis suit w/ plasma rifle, and burst cannon, (pulse fire wounds space marines quite a lot), killing roughly the same number of space marines, then necrons. So in a group of three, (216 points), you kill about 5-6 space marines a turn, (only crisis suits). However, against space marines you might want to give one in the team a fusion blaster, for taking out rhinos with troops in them, (can always help the whole team), as the rest can engage the survivors in a shoot-out.
Eldar/Dark Eldar:
Their armour is weak, and their vehicles aren't the toughest, therefore use the same set-up as space marines, (it kills more, and they don't get saves period). Have one guy use missile pod, which can do some real damage on a raider, or ravager, but you also might want to give them some shield drones, (2-3), because ravagers are a pain with how many dark lances they can mount, (dark lances instant kill crisis suits, and ignore their saves).
So for around 240 points you can have two crisis suits with the following setup:
Crisis Suit w/burst cannon, plasma rifle, targetting array, hard-wired multi-tracker
Ones of the following:
crisis suit w/fusion missile pod, plasma rifle, targetting array, hard wired multi tracker, with two shield drones
HAMMERHEADS:
[move]FIRST RULE: MAGNETS... (Don't make the same mistake I did, use them)[/move]
Against Dark Eldar, Eldar, tyranids, and orks, it's best to use a railgun, submunitions clear a vast amount of them in no time, ignoring thier saves, and having an 83.3% chance of wounding. This is good.
Now against chaos space marines, space marines, and necrons, use an Ion Cannon, it has the potential ability to clear several space marines/necrons a turn, and it's nowhere as expensive as a railgun, so if you're fighting marines swap the railgun for the ion cannon, and you'll have like 30-40 points to add something into your army.
HQ:
Your crisis suit commander should be well prepared to last awhile:
Crisis Commander w/ plasma rifle, cyclic ion blaster/fusion blaster, stimulant injector, shield generator, hard-wired multi tracker
This commander is anywhere from 110-165 points, and can stand quite some firepower, while giving some back.
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 15:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

A little off topic, but isn't another hammer head sprue going to be as cheap as magnets anyway? Also gives you the SMS for any devilfish should you be using burstcannons on the Hammerheads.

I think you are being a little generous with the flamer hits, bearing in mind that you would need to really deep strike if you wanted to use it against things like tyranids and therefore arn't going to be within 1" (which you would need to get 6-10 with it). I think 4 to 6 is a much more realistic number of flamer covered people. If we're talking ork boyz, you will need to kill at least 6 before you suit has even broken even (though it will be slightly in profit then). Too risky and requires getting too close for me if you want to get the numbers we're talking about - as long as you are outside 18" when you fire, not even hormagaunts can catch you if you don't want to be caught (they move slower than you unless they charge.

The only time I would advocate flamers is against the oft forgotten guard[size=6pt]subtle hint[/size]. As heavy weapon teams and command squads are easy high point targets, and are small enough that you should be able to line up your flamer to get them all. Even colonels make all on your own tests. The survivors are going to be reluctant to assault you as well in most cases so you can make good your escape afterward.

Your submuntions are also going to work against you here as if you are throwing pie plates around the place, no one in the right mind will stay bunched up enough to let you get 10 models under a flamer template as well.
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 15:30   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Tyranids-
Against tyranids it's a good idea to have multi-shot, strong guns that can pierce hordey armour, in this case:
Crisis suit w/ flamer, burst cannon, multi-tracker- 42 points, and can cause a ton of damage to hordes, meaning you can field three of these for a little over 120 points.
termagaunt kills:
Basic flamer template covers 8-12 termagaunts, (all are hit), 1.5 burst cannon shots hit, (two rounded)
the flamer wounds 6.56 termagaunts, (seven rounded), and the burst cannon wounds 1.668 termagaunts, (two rounded)
Therefore, 9 termagaunts die, (assuming you're within range)
You're consistenly skewing your math in favor of the tau. First, you can't at all count on getting a certain number of models under a flame template. Second 6.5 wounds plus 1.7 wounds is 8, not 9, on average...if you must round, round at the end, it's more accurate. Rounding in the middle exponentiates existing error and introduces new errors. Bottom line, flamer/burst is probably a good setup for hunting termagaunts, but you will not average 9 kills per shooting phase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Against toughies, (carnifexes, hive tyrants), we have this:
Crisis suit w/ fusion blaster, plasma rifle, targetting array, and hard-wired multi-tracker- 72 points
With fewer shots you might want to have the extra BS, (targetting array). This can pierce all tough armour, and the guns are tough enough to get around their high toughness.
Necrons:
A good upgrade for taking down necrons, is pretty much the same as taking down tyranid monsters, (as their saves are the same), and they'll usually win their armour saves if you don't pierce them, except you might want to exchange the fusion blaster for a burst cannon, (as even 3+ saves fail with enough dice).
I have to disagree with the theory that a burst cannon will kill more crons than a fusion blaster. The burst cannon gets more hits, but it wounds on 3 instead of 2, and it allows both an armor save and a WBB...which FB doesn't. Also, in both of these cases (TMC and crons), a monat with TA and HWMT will be a drop in the bucket. To do reasonable damage, you need a full team of traditional helios suits (no targeting array, unfortunately, but that can be dealt with by giving the team leader a hard wired drone controller and a pair of marker drones). Even three helios suits might not kill a TMC in one turn...but one will just piss him off and get your suit eaten. With three, he'll know he's been kissed...if he's still standing...in which case he'll have only one wound left...and a one wound TMC is lunchmeat! As for the necrons....one suit will kill 1-3 crons, probably 2...big deal. three suits will kill 3-9, probably 7...which is significant! That brings a unit reasonably close to not standing back up (for other elements in your army to finish off), and most likely means that at least some will be more than 6" away, and therefore not be allowed to roll in the first place, even if no more get killed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
But against necrons, your best tool is the pulse rifle, it does quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap.
What? Without markerlight support, and with a WBB roll, it takes 18 pulse shots to keep one warrior down! Pulse fire is only a good investment against necrons if you use something stronger first to get that unit down to a size where pulse fire will finish it off, eliminating WBB. Actually, if the entire unit is wiped, anyone within 6" of a like model still stands up...but it joins that unit. You've still eliminated a scoring unit...and if the original unit is wiped, most of its models will be outside that 6" range of a like model. Anyway, wiping the unit out brings the number of pulse shots needed to keep a necron down to 9. Markerlighting for the fire warriors brings it down further. In summary, pulse fire is only effective against necrons if you improve the BS of the firers AND ensure that the necron unit is reduced to zero models that turn.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Orks:
Against orks you should use the same gun upgrades as if you were fighting termagaunts, (flamer, burst cannon), as they have bad armour, just like cannon fodder gaunts.
Ork Kills:
flamer template covers 6-10 orks, (all hit), 1.5 burst cannon shots hit, (2 rounded)
flamer wounds 4-5 orks, (50%), the burst cannon wounds 1.312 orks, (1 rounded)
So around 5-6 orks die, pretty good for one battlesuit, that only costs 42 points
Not bad...but I'd use either a missile pod or a frag blaster instead of a flamer. Unless the orks are down to single digit model count, getting close enough to use a flamer is suicide.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Chaos space marines/Space Marines:
Crisis suit w/ plasma rifle, and burst cannon, (pulse fire wounds space marines quite a lot), killing roughly the same number of space marines, then necrons. So in a group of three, (216 points), you kill about 5-6 space marines a turn, (only crisis suits). However, against space marines you might want to give one in the team a fusion blaster, for taking out rhinos with troops in them, (can always help the whole team), as the rest can engage the survivors in a shoot-out.
The best suit for killing any MEQ is helios. Burst cannons are best saved for orks, IG, possibly elves, and bugs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Eldar/Dark Eldar:
Their armour is weak, and their vehicles aren't the toughest, therefore use the same set-up as space marines, (it kills more, and they don't get saves period). Have one guy use a fusion blaster, which can do some real damage on a raider, or ravager, but you also might want to give them some shield drones, (2-3), because ravagers are a pain with how many dark lances they can mount, (dark lances instant kill crisis suits, and ignore their saves).
So for 246 points you can have two crisis suits with the following setup:
Crisis Suit w/burst cannon, plasma rifle, targetting array, hard-wired multi-tracker
Ones of the following:
crisis suit w/fusion blaster, plasma rifle, targetting array, hard wired multi tracker, with two shield drones
I'd use missile pods on dark eldar vehicles, not fusion blasters...you can only glance them anyway. In fact, the best setup for elves is, IMHO, fireknife. Both weapons are good enough against medium-armored skimmers, and good enough against their troops.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
HAMMERHEADS:
[move]FIRST RULE: MAGNETS... (Don't make the same mistake I did, use them)[/move]
Against Dark Eldar, Eldar, tyranids, and orks, it's best to use a railgun, submunitions clear a vast amount of them in no time, ignoring thier saves, and having an 83.3% chance of wounding. This is good.
Now against chaos space marines, space marines, and necrons, use an Ion Cannon, it has the potential ability to clear several space marines/necrons a turn, and it's nowhere as expensive as a railgun, so if you're fighting marines swap the railgun for the ion cannon, and you'll have like 30-40 points to add something into your army.
Meh...I'm not sure I like filling a heavy support slot with something that will kill 2 MEQs per turn. Better bet is to drop the tank entirely and take sniper drones instead. That gives you 9 shots for less than the cost of two tanks, and stealth armor to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
HQ:
Your crisis suit commander should be well prepared to last awhile:
Crisis Commander w/ plasma rifle, cyclic ion blaster/fusion blaster, stimulant injector, shield generator, hard-wired multi tracker
This commander is anywhere from 110-165 points, and can stand quite some firepower, while giving some back.
You have four items on that list that take up a hard point, three weapons and the shield gen. I'd drop the cyclic. I'd also add iridium armor. Nothing better than having the saves of a terminator chaplain with feel no pain and most of the mobility of an XV-8. Too bad we can't do something to eliminate the insta-kill of an unsaved high-strength wound (like adamantine mantle).
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 15:44   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

Well if it's that bad... leave it be, let it become a dead topic.

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Falstead: I don't think you can ever justify a T5 goat in a regular 40k game
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 15:56   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

Congrats on reaching your 1000th post!
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 15:58   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

You have four items on that list that take up a hard point

This is a quote by you, notice there was slash by cyclic ion blaster, and fusion blaster, meaning they can both be used well, I wasn't saying they were all on the guy.
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Originally Posted by Falstead
Falstead: I don't think you can ever justify a T5 goat in a regular 40k game
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 16:23   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau Weapons, Part Two: When in use

Hmm...I apologize for not paying closer attention. I'd take the fusion blaster rather than the cyclic, in that case. If I was facing an enemy where the cyclic was worthwhile, I'd pair it up with a burst cannon for 8 shots at Bs5 >
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