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Beating mechanized Eldar
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:11   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Default Beating mechanized Eldar

Hi, this is my first post here on Tau online. I'm pretty new to the game, just started up a tau army but i'm mostly playing against real veterans who have very well built up armies. Anyways I played against my friend's eldar for the first time last night and got utterly smashed. His wave serpents totally destroyed my hammerhead and d-fish even though i shot first (but missed). Anyways, looking at the stats it seems like one of these wave serpents is more than a match for a hammerhead when equipped with TL bright lances, but it also costs 40 pts less, carries a squad of infantry, and doesn't take up a FOC slot! I guess if you had a lot of str 8 shots for taking out tanks the hammerhead would be more durable, but as tau I rely on a few str 10 shots (that get reduced down to 8). Anyways, I guess what I really want to know is what would be a good strategy for taking on a mechanized eldar force which consists mostly of wraithguard, banshees, and striking scorpions in wave serpents?
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:29   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Heya Dunakhu,

Welcome to the boards! Mechanized Eldar can be a real pain for a lot of armies to counter, but Tau can actually do it rather easily.

Your secret weapon: Missile Pods

Lots and lots of missile pods will rip right through Eldar skimmers. The reason railguns and lascannons and the like don't do enough damage, is because they just don't generate enough rolls on the "glance damage chart" in order to produce some meaningful damage. Missile pods on the other hand, are a weapon we have that is mobile and that can produce lots of hits which leads to lots of rolls on the damage charts and finally give us the damage results we need to put those skimmers down.

Your other big weapon for success: Ion Cannon

The ion cannon is in the same boat as the missile pod. It hits often and has several shots. The more the merrier and when you combine the two and focus on one skimmer at a time, you can down them one by one form several units.

--- If you have skimmers, keep them moving. Eldar will have to hit your glance-only-skimmers several times to really effect them. All the while, you can return fire from several units over all.

--- If you're mostly a ground force, the suits will be your best friend.

--- Str10 Railguns aren't very useful, because many Mech Eldar players will have an upgrade which reduces the strength to only Str8 instead of 10, giving you only 50% odds to glance. This is why it's better to simply take lots and lots of Str7 shots instead (aside from them being superior to one-hit-shots anyways for glance damage).

So mass up those long range, mobile Str7 shots and give him a right good headache

More information on this subject was already discussed in this thread too: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=8543.0

Cheers!
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:29   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

First of welcome ...

Well mechanized Eldar are very hard to beat. I can only recommend taking as much Railguns (Hammerhead and Broadsides) as possible, maybe missiles or fusion blasters on your Crisis.
As for his assault stile mass fire by your FW, concentrate everything on one squad (preferably the closest and toughest).

I must admit that I have always lost to mechanized Eldar, normal Eldar are relatively easy but their Wave Serpent is a pain in the D'yi.

I hope you get more help from more experienced players OK MalVeauX beat me to it and is a lot more experienced

Greetz
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:36   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Thanks for the advice guys, this should help a lot!
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

I'd avoid railguns really, against AV12 skimmers there just really isn't the need (as AP1 doesn't override a fast moving skimmer), 3 shots needing a 5 or more is more likely to inflict damage than the one needing a 2 or more.

Railgun = 1 x 2/3 x 5/6 = 5/9 (0.56)
Ion cannon = 3 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 2/3 (0.67)

Its not a great deal, but the Ion cannon will be more reliable due to additional number of shots. Railguns have their place against Eldar, but more the static ones as the submuntions blast is lethal to aspect warriors. Of course if you have 2 hammerheads or a lot of crisis suits with missile pods then a railgun would be a good choice - just remember that the Missiles and ions should be used to bring down the transport, and the railgun fired at the closely packed troops being carried within it.
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 17:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Welcome to Tau Online.

Mech Eldar are a nightmare to fight, with any army!
I feel your pain! Now then, wave serpents and falcons are a real pain in the neck, they are much more durable than Tau skimmers by far, and generally tend to take two turns to destoy! the first to stun them, the second to pick them out! If you get lucky you can take them down in one!

Now then, because they are skimmers, really high strength weapons are not so great. The downside being you will only really ever be able to get glancing hits anyway! However, the great S10 shots can help to ensure that you do get that glancing. As you have found out though, the trouble is guaranteeing the hit! I find that rocket pods are a great weapon to use... with multiple shots, a good range and strength and on a mobile XV8 platform!

Thereing lies the secret to destroying most enemy skimmers... lots and lots of mid strength shots, rather than a few really high powered ones. if you are lucky enough, you can get in some stealth suits behind their skimmers to the weaker strength 10AV. The sheer volume of shots usually always find a weak spot. I find them great at destroying vypers!!!

Now then, once you have tried your hand at dealing with the transports, you have to be able to deal with the troops inside. Mech Eldar can carry all sorts of wierd and wonderful troop types. The scorps and banshees can be devastating in combat... However, you will be wounding them on 2+, you will find a good volume of shots will easily deal with the banshees but the better save of the scorps makes them a more difficult proposition. lucky for you they are not extremely fast, so you might be able tosave a few units by dropping them back to new positions.

The wraithguard are another nasty one. only wounding on 4+ and with their great save it makes them quite difficult. jumping out of a serpent ready to blast a dirty great chasm in the side of your hammerhead just makes them scary! But they are overpriced, so they are fighting for their points from the off. With these guys, its important to stay well clear, as from afar they are no threat.

So how can you begin to prioritise your targets when the lot can be on you in a flash thanks to their super fast skimmer transports???? well.... thats the problem we all face and thats why mech eldar are so annoying!

being able to get the first turn is always a bonus, that way you can get the shots at them before they do it to you. It also means that you will be able to get penetrating hits (because they haven't moved and so will not get the skimmers moving fast rule). Getting a few markerlight hits in from troops early on will allow you to unleash seeker missiles and hopefully aid the destruction. If they fail, you can expect any pathfinders to be quickly consumed though!

In your own camp, its always important to ensure that your own skimmers are also moving over 6" so that the enemy can only get glancing hits on them, so multi trackers are a must. Make sure to stick your units to cover wherever possible and make clever the use of your battle suits. Remember that if the mission allows it you might find it better to deep strike your battlesuits so that they can get in at the enemy as the skimmers advance to your lines! Whilst dual fusion blasters are sometimes a good choice, just be sure not to hope for the melta rule, as the serpents deny you this if you are shooting them in the front or side arcs. if you are in the rear, you should be in good. Though if in the rear, burst cannons can perform almost as well!?! I wouldn't recommend infiltrating your stealths or kroot, unless you are playing on a particularly large board or can be sure of their safety!

Just remember, their skimmers can move up to 12". Though if they do, any troops inside willnot be able to charge. they will be able to jump out and shoot. What you often find though, is that the player will move 12" in order to be able to fire the guns on the serpent or falcon, or they will move much more, 24" or sometimes even more... in both cases they will mostly leave the troops safely inside! waiting for their next turn to jump out. here is the danger, because if the unit disembarks in the beginning of their turn, they are free to move and assault as normal. And banshees are lightning fast, getting a maximum of 12" (including charge) +D6" (fleet) +2" (disembark) movement! add that up to 20"!!! Thats where you have to be careful.


Good luck!
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 18:48   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

I really can't add much to the excellent advice already proffered. However, bear in mind the axium "know thy enemy". If this is someone you play often, do yourself a favor and review in your mind (and with him) those tactical decisions that worked well and those that did not. More often than not, you become a good player through loss, no victory. If you win all the time, you learn nothing. Loosing makes you consider decisions that caused the loss.

For example, many times players will say things like "I lost to bad dice", I know I've used that excuse before . Now consider "what" dice were rolled more so than "why". If you are rolling many difficult terrain rolls for vehicles, if you are testing for 25% unit loss in the first or second turn, or if you are loosing crisis suits to shooting, then perhaps a tactical change will lessen the impact the enemy has on your game. In the 3 examples, set up vehicles and jetpack troops so as to use terrain as cover but not limit movement sufficiently enough to force you into the terrain; FW getting shot up by heavy bolter fire early in the game can only mean they are not being deployed wisely in cover or mounted; loss of crisis suits in battle are a concern in that cover and movement are not being used to limited enemy return fire. All 3 examples are instances where limiting exposure will ensure that resources are not depleated early.

Finally, don't sweat the loss. Learn, as you are doing, by asking more experienced players, making mental notes of poor tactical decisions, and pre-planning how you want the battle to be conducted.

Quick and dirty tactical advice that spans all races for Tau:
1. Shoot anything that moves faster than you do.
2. Shoot anything that is a heavy support or has a big gun.
3. Shoot whatever is left only to non-scoreing status.
4. Sieze objective only in last turn in order to reduce casualties.

Hope this helps

Wanax
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Old 03 Apr 2006, 19:36   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Wave Serpent isn't that terrifying as falcon to take down, because it can't take the holofield (or whatever vehicle gear, that makes you roll 2d6 pick smallest). So take suits with missile pods, 1 unit of Deathrain suits is a very good choice when going against Eldar, Wave serpent will come down easier than your devilfish from glancing hits and usually it costs more. The real problem is Falcon with Holofield and Soulstone (let's him try negating shaken and stunned results) and almost always you make only shaken or stunned result when you roll 2 dice and pick the lowest. So fire it as long that it is stunned or destroyed. Concentrate fire is the best way to go and not stopping in shaken only result, because it will still come at you 24" and next turn he can disembark and assault...

This is a really good start to building a list against Eldar.

- 1 unit of deathrain two strong (TL-MP, Target Array), take out skimmers from 36" range...
- 1 unit Fireknife or Burst cannon/missile pod.
- 1 Hammerhead with Ioncannon

This gives you 7+ s7 shots to take down skimmers, really good chance, when you concentrate their fire on 1 skimmer at a time. And this leaves you more firepower to take. My suits always carry missile pods, never leave a Sept without them, they are the most versatile and powerful + cheap weapon that suits can take.

Fusion Blasters isn't really good a choice, amount of glancing hits is the way to go, just roll enough and you will get that good result some time and remember enough weapon destroyed will bring the skimmer down. So 3 weapon destroyed results will destroy a skimmer...


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Old 06 Apr 2006, 06:22   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Thanks for all the great advice guys! with your help (and some very lucky rolls) I was able to crush the Eldar in a rematch game. ;D
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 06:33   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Beating mechanized Eldar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunakhu
Thanks for all the great advice guys! with your help (and some very lucky rolls) I was able to crush the Eldar in a rematch game. ;D
Congratulations! That is great to hear. What did you end up using?
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