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CIB? Why?
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Old 09 Mar 2006, 22:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default CIB? Why?

I did some thinking about the much talked about CIB. I've come to the conclusion one is better served with burst cannon, which I imagine is cheaper. I was hoping for a lot more from a "special issue" weapon that this.

Basically the CIB vs. MEQs is approximately 10% more effective than a burst cannon, primarily because of the mini-rending. Versus IG, the burst and CIB are exactly equal. Where the CIB shines, if you can call it that, is versus T1 and T2 opponents, which is probably better served with AFL and flamers, since such creatures are likely to have Vulnerabilty to Templates.

In return for the ho-hum performance of the CIB, you now lose the ability to hit Vehicle Armor 10 and 11. Plus enemy with Toughness beyond what a CIB can wound. I know my games are lacking targets with T1 and T2, but I imagine somewhere somebody is thinking "Dang, you know, I wish I could maximize my Commander's ability to killing rats, instead of tanks and power armor marines!"

Regarding the 10% more casualities the CIB will inflict over a Burst Cannon, consider a Crisis suit with a Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, and Multi-Tracker which is, what, 60 points? It performs against MEQs like this:

2 PR shots, 1 PR hit, 5/6 PR wounds, 5/6 unsaved.
3 BC shots, 1.5 BC hits, 1 BC wound, 1/3 unsaved or .333
For a total of 7/6 MEQ kills, or 1.16.

Now a Crisis suit with PR, CIB, and MT...
5/6 unsaved PR wounds.
5 CIB shots, 4.166 AP5, 2.083 CIB hits, .694 CIB wounds, .2314 unsaved wounds.
5 CIB shots, .8333 AP2, .4166 CIB hits, .138 CIB wounds .138 unsaved.
Total CIB: .3694
Grand Total: 1.202 MEQ kills.

Well, that's less than 10%, right. The increase, when paired with an effective weapon, is 3.5%.

Now add up the costs of these two, and tell me if a CIB-equipped Crisis suit is less than 3.5% more than a Burst Cannon equipped suit. I'll bet it isn't.

This is a joke weapon. I think they had to create mini-rending just so it wasn't too painfully obvious how mediocre this "special issue" weapon is. If I was to ask for a special issue weapon, it would an Assault 3 plasma Rifle, not a gatling flashlight!


============================

A Tau Shas'o goes to a Battlesuit shop...

"Good day, sir. How are you?" asks the saletau.

"Oh, good. I just got back from Taros. What have the Earth caste been coming up with lately?"

"Ah, well, over here we have the latest is Broadside technology."

"What the hell! Why is that Broadside bent over like that?"

"Ah, well, you see this new addition here? This is the Advanced Stabilizer System, or A.S.S.!"

"Uh-huh. What's that hole there?"

"Oh, that's the Pilot Waste Ejection Port. You see, being in a suit for days at a time means the suit accumulates a store of waste from the pilot. The Earth caste has come up with a system to use this waste to counteract the recoil of the Railguns. When the railguns fire, Tau waste material is fired out the A.S.S. hole here to balance the suit, allowing greater manueverability in a firefight!"

"Uh, right. What's that on that Manta?"

"Oh, the same thing, really. It's like an afterburner. It's the Backwards-Utilized-Thrust-Tripler!"

"Oh, Aun..."
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Old 09 Mar 2006, 22:39   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

I'd have to agree with yout, I don't really see the point in using the CIB all that much. Its expensive, and it dosnet seem to be that great unless used against the lightest of troops. Though I've herd that it might actually be a typo, and that it was supposed to wound any target on a roll of 6, as well as count as AP1.

Nice sig. by the way ;D.
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Old 09 Mar 2006, 22:43   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

Actually on IC its not a bad idea, also use the CIB with other special issue weapon which is also 18", and it really looks like fun.
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Old 09 Mar 2006, 23:20   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel.wilson

2 PR shots, 1 PR hit, 5/6 PR wounds, 5/6 unsaved.
3 BC shots, 1.5 BC hits, 1 BC wound, 1/3 unsaved or .333
For a total of 7/6 MEQ kills, or 1.16.

Now a Crisis suit with PR, CIB, and MT...
5/6 unsaved PR wounds.
5 CIB shots, 4.166 AP5, 2.083 CIB hits, .694 CIB wounds, .2314 unsaved wounds.
5 CIB shots, .8333 AP2, .4166 CIB hits, .138 CIB wounds .138 unsaved.
Total CIB: .3694
Grand Total: 1.202 MEQ kills.
Hi,

Unfortunately your stats are wrong. The plasma & burst kills are right but the CIB is wrong. The way you are doing the maths you are assuming that 1/6 of the wounds are AP2, when against marines 1/2 the wounds will be AP2, as you only wound MEQs on a 5+. The chance of AP2 wounds go up the tougher the creature, eg. a T5 or T6 creature is only wounded on a 6 so is always AP2.

The correct kills for the CIB at 18" is 0.555:
5 Shots, 2.5 hits, 5/6 wounds
Now half of these wounds will be AP2 so 5/12 unsaved wounds from AP2, the rest of the wounds will be at AP4, so 5/36 totaling 20/36 unsaved wounds in total, or 0.555.

At 12-18" the CIB is better than the plasma rifle at MEQ killing.

On crisis suits the CIB is not worth it because you have to give them the shas'vre upgrade to take the CIB, but on commanders it rocks.

An Shas'el with Plasma, CIB & Multi-tracker is 90 pts compared to a Plasma, Burst & Multi-tracker Shas;el which costs 83 pts. The CIB Shas'el kills 1.852 while the Burst Shas'el kills 1.556 (at 12"). For a 8.4% increase in costs you kill over 19% more MEQs.

This is why people like the CIB. The most cost effective shooter against MEQ (within 18" and within 12") is a Shas'el with Plasma, CIB, Targeting Array & Hard-wired Multi-tracker at 100 pts.

For me the choice for commander is between the CIB Shas'el above, and the Shas'el with a Missile Pod instead of a CIB. The missile pod has the longer range (so is better against all ranges above 18"), can kill tanks, and doesn't force me to be too aggressive with my commander.

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Old 09 Mar 2006, 23:22   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

The CIB will be great against T3, 4+Sv models. Of which there are plenty -

Storm Troopers,
=][= Stormtroopers,
Guard with Carapace Doctrine,
Eldar Aspect Warriors,
Fire Warriors.

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Old 09 Mar 2006, 23:45   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
The CIB will be great against T3, 4+Sv models. Of which there are plenty -
Thats true, to bad I ususally face of againt SMs :-\.
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Old 10 Mar 2006, 00:08   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

Actually, Fuby, I've heard from Tonka that the AFL is a guess range weapon. Apparently, you roll a scatter die for it. Tonka figured put it on an Elite Crisis, and save your BS 5 slots for weapons that will benefit from it.

I don't know what I think of the AFL, yet. I'm not too familiar with the rules regarding guess range stuff. But a weapon that hits an ideal location 33% of the time? Maybe against armies with huge swarms of creatures.

The strength in the Crisis suit is that you can tool it out to take on anything. That being said, Fire Warriors and Stealthsuits can take on Infantry, Railguns can take on Heavy Armored Vehicles. FireKnives and Helios' tool you up for Light Vehicles and Heavy Infantry, plus high toughness creatures like Greater Daemons and Eldar Wraithlords, freeing the Railguns for AV 13 and 14 targets and pulse fire for infantry.

Rathstar,

Oh, that's what mini-rending is about? That's a bizarre rule. "I'm tougher, so my armor is suddenly thinner against this weapon than yours?" Weird, but thanks for clearing this up.

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Old 10 Mar 2006, 00:27   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

I have a use for the AFB.

Kustom bullsh - I mean force field.

Goodbye, orks. 20 points makes your whole army 33% tougher? Not anymore.
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Old 10 Mar 2006, 00:31   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

You role to hit. With 5 shots, you'll hit with a one or two. Then the rule comes in: if you role to wound and you get a "6", it wounds the creature and passes through their armor.

Pretty much like the ranger long rifle rules.

On the AFL: You can launch it like a blast weapon, but then it scatters (BBlast template makes this FINE). But you can also shoot over things, because it is a guess weapon. If you do that, roll to scatter. If it does, roll 2D6 and choose the highest for how far.
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Old 10 Mar 2006, 00:45   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: CIB? Why?

MechTau... that is if you can't see the enemy. I know that I'll be putting the AFL on my Death Rain* team's Shas'Vre and increase their use greatly. Since my Death Rain suits usually sit near my Fire Warriors, I figure this is a way to take care of those pesky hoards.

Also does anyone else think having a Ordinance weapon launcher on a Crisis Suit to be sweet? =^.^=

* for those who don't know Death Rain Crisis Suits have a Twin Linked Missile Pod and a support system... mine will be the Targetting Array on the non-'Vre suits and the Array will be replaced with the AFL... no need for an Array when it doesn't help the AFL hit any better.
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