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Need help regarding drones with crisis suits
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Old 06 Mar 2006, 09:10   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Hi, I'm in the middle of updateing my Tau with the new codex. I used to have my commander and a 2 man Crisis suit squad with 2 gun drones. The drones were mainly just for some extra wounds before the crisis suits got hit. But with the new codex this does'nt work anymore. So now I'm changeing the Gun drones to Sheild drones.
The thing I'm unsure about is will I be able to use the 4+ Invunerable save of the drones if the majority of the squad does not have 4+ invunerable saves??? And if thats the case are they worth spending the points on just for some extra wounds for the squad.
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Old 06 Mar 2006, 09:26   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenZ
Hi, I'm in the middle of updating my Tau with the new codex. I used to have my commander and a 2 man Crisis suit squad with 2 gun drones. The drones were mainly just for some extra wounds before the crisis suits got hit. But with the new codex this doesn't work anymore. So now I'm changing the Gun drones to Shield drones.
The thing I'm unsure about is will I be able to use the 4+ Invulnerable save of the drones if the majority of the squad does not have 4+ invulnerable saves??? And if that's the case are they worth spending the points on just for some extra wounds for the squad.
I doubt that anyone can give you a decant response due to the fact it might divulge some codex secrets so you'll probably would have to wait March 23. But I think it's a good question though.
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Old 06 Mar 2006, 09:32   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenZ
Hi, I'm in the middle of updateing my Tau with the new codex. I used to have my commander and a 2 man Crisis suit squad with 2 gun drones. The drones were mainly just for some extra wounds before the crisis suits got hit. But with the new codex this does'nt work anymore. So now I'm changeing the Gun drones to Sheild drones.
The thing I'm unsure about is will I be able to use the 4+ Invunerable save of the drones if the majority of the squad does not have 4+ invunerable saves??? And if thats the case are they worth spending the points on just for some extra wounds for the squad.
Actually the ability to use drones special ability was not lost in the new codex it was lost by the 4th edition Rules book and tau FAQ.

Read you majority armour rules again, they clearly say that invulnerables are not involved.


[size=8pt]Fixed up spelling. It can't be that hard... - mace[/size]
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Old 06 Mar 2006, 09:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

FrenZ, on the assumption you have the new codex as you're accessing the net from Australia, Drones function as specified on Page 31 (of the 4th ed Codex). The function like a normal unit with mixed saves etc. Having just had a quick look, Page 76 of the BFM rulebook explains mixed armour - note that it refers to Armour saves only, not cover or invulnerable, as Lanfeix mentioned (well, I can't find the bit where they say specifically invulnerables aren't involved, but the wording suggests that mixed armour applies to armour saves only. A rules reference would be handy).

And so, assuming that the squad only contains say, crisis suits, and shield drones, the shield drones follow their special rule detailed on Page 31 - so you'll still be able to use Invulnerable saves after you've applied the normal Mixed armour rules.
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Old 06 Mar 2006, 11:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

I believe mace is right. This is why drones got a special rule for their armour save, as the mixed rules in the big rulebook refers to armour saves alone.

So, it is my opinion that shield drones should be able to use their invulnerable save before the crisis are hit, even if there are more crisis in the unit.

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Old 06 Mar 2006, 14:36   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Majority armour rules are simply for placement of wounds. 3 Drones at 4+ and 2 Crisis at 3+ taking 3 wounds would result in all the drones taking hits as they are assumed to be "picked on".

When it comes to making saves you have the choice of wether to use the standard, or invunerable.

Considering Shield drones adopt the toughness and save characteristic of the unit they are with, you can now allocate hits to them even when they are the minority and use either their invunerable or adopted armour save.

Majority doesn't actually affect how you roll save's, mearly the order in which units are hit.

(though this might break the 23rd rule, drones and saves are such a pain i feel it best to give proper examples).
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Old 07 Mar 2006, 02:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Thanks to all of you for the great feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=19535.msg1057965618#msg1057965618 date=1141641983]
FrenZ, on the assumption you have the new codex as you're accessing the net from Australia
Yeah I'm fortunate enough to already have the new Tau Codex. If ya got any questions feel free to PM me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechar
Considering Shield drones adopt the toughness and save characteristic of the unit they are with, you can now allocate hits to them even when they are the minority and use either their invulnerable or adopted armour save.
As Rechar said Shied drones now take on the toughness and save of the unit they are with, so there is no problem allocating hits to the drones first, I just can't find a rule that says anything about if invulnerable saves are in the minority you can still use them?
Personally I totally agree with what Mace posted but if someone could find a rule that clearly states its ok to use the drones 4+ invulnerable save you really would help me sleep a little better at night. Thanks
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Old 07 Mar 2006, 03:15   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

the invunerable save is an addition to the basic save. When a model has multiple saves they can choose which to use.

Pg 25 More than One Save "sometimes a creature will have a normal armour save and a seperate invunerable armour save......In these cases, the owning player can choose which save to attempt before rolling the dice."
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Old 07 Mar 2006, 03:19   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechar
the invunerable save is an addition to the basic save. When a model has multiple saves they can choose which to use.

Pg 25 More than One Save "sometimes a creature will have a normal armour save and a seperate invunerable armour save......In these cases, the owning player can choose which save to attempt before rolling the dice."
and that is the answer to our problems. But if you're going by the old codex than if you out number the drones than the suits will have to make the save.
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Old 07 Mar 2006, 04:00   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help regarding drones with crisis suits

To be perfectly clear, the new Shield Drone rules make it so that their IS NO majority toughness, and NO mixed armor. Theirfore you can allocate hits freely between members, assuming that no other models join the unit with different T and Armor SV (i.e. not counting INV SV's) characteristics.
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