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Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 15:24   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Looking at the numbers I am not really impressed with pathfinders and their ability to increase bs atleast on FWs.

Instead of 3 fish with FWs that average 36 hits in rapid fire range, with a squad of 8 pathfinders painting for the 2 FW squads you get an average of 40 hits...

Great a 10% increase in shooting power WHEN 0 casualties have been inflicted!
Once the enemy starts firing at the pathfiders you lose effectiveness alot faster than the all FW route.

Also Pathfinders are somewhat static, sure they can move pregame and sure they have a transport but as the markerlights are "heavy" if you do relocate you are losing out on their benefits for 1-2 turns!

The 10% advantage given to the FWs does not cover you losing turns to do nothing. Your basically left with them being static or less effective than just taking more FWs.

Markerlighting for the skyray or seekers elsewhere as their primary function with the ability to help out FWs when they get in close seems decent though.

Having a unit of 3 Helios suits in 12" shooting at bs5 works though.

Anyway, what you people think? Pathfinders yay or nay?
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 15:33   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Pathfinder are only really critical if you have certain other units in your army, such as skyray, or large units of fireknives of stealths to maximise the effects.

If you play a standard list without seeker missiles, or with few plasma/fusion guns, i would rather take a unit of piranhas over the pathfinders.

If you use seekers and skyrays and plenty of suits however, pathfinders will make your high damage high AP shots really count as the effect of the increased BS is much more drastic for crisis suits than for fire warriors.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 16:24   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Well, I think the advantage to Pathfinders is their dynamic nature. If you have, say, four devilfish mounted FW teams in two teams, supported by a pathfinder squad, you can boost which ever squad necessary. When you need two FW squads to be three, Pathfinders can do that for you. Or you could take six FW squads in two teams and skip the Pathfinders.

And it isn't just BS improvement that Pathfinders can accomplish which gives you tactical flexibility.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 16:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

i see to great problems with PF:

numbers- they are too few to make a real difference when you really depend on them.
one round of shooting and poof they are gone.

the necessity to take the DF- lets face is there anyone who actually uses that DF to transport their pathfinder??.
i would be more than happy to pay even more than 12 a piece if i could have a larger squad and didnīt have to spend 85 pts in a worthless DF.

iīm not even asking for them to actually infiltrate the extra move seems more than enough

you īd just use the extra move before the first turn to put your PFs somewhere hidden in the bushes and let them stay there pointing targets for the rest of your units
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 16:54   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

What you have to consider is that the pathfinder devilfish has some maor advantages over a regular devilfish.

1)you can use it as a dedicated gunboat with SMS, targetting array and double seeker missiles, as you dont need it transport its squad.
2)It acts a a teleport spotter/homing beacon for any deepstriking units landing in LOS of the devilfish, which for mechanised tau army is like the most amazing ability ever! Being able to reliably deepstrike helios suits with pin-point accuracy, combined with the MLs to make sure you hit em can win you the game.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 17:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

It would be nice to have the Devilfish an option for Pathfinders, though. I like the idea of infiltrating Pathfinders into positions. The cost savings for not having a Devilfish would make Pathfinders that much more valuable.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 19:29   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel.wilson
It would be nice to have the Devilfish an option for Pathfinders, though. I like the idea of infiltrating Pathfinders into positions. The cost savings for not having a Devilfish would make Pathfinders that much more valuable.
Too valuable...and not only would they stop being a Fast Attack choice, they would become mandatory for their markerlights and you'd see an entirely static army crop up everywhere with markerlights picking off everything on the enemy army. They'd be far too powerful without their Devilfish forcing their cost up.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 19:50   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Quote:
They'd be far too powerful without their Devilfish forcing their cost up.
In which case, the basic points cost for the Pathfinders should be increased accordingly to negate the increased valuability of the Pathfinders without their Devilfish.

I like the Pathfinders, I find them a valuable addition to the army currently, as well as being characteristic. I have yet to see the new codex, so I cannot really coment much on how I think they will act under the new rules.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 20:10   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

I like to use them because they enhance my Crisis Suits ability to shoot. I have 12 shoots on only hit 6 times without them. With them I can hit 10 out of 12 times. Also any left over lighting I could give to a stealth, tank, or broadside.

Using marker lights to improve firewarriors ability to fire is a waste unless they're networked, than that's differant.

Also Markerlights activate seeker missiles that you can use against your opponent. I us ally take 4-6 seeker missiles into battle.

The downside to these guys is that you have to take a transport. Also the enemy usually shoot the crap out of these poor guys. So they usually don't live too long. I like to hardwire two gun drones to the squad so they can live a bit longer and it brings the squad up to 10.
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Old 05 Mar 2006, 20:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders worth using in tournament lists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
Using marker lights to improve firewarriors ability to fire is a waste unless they're networked, than that's differant.
would you like to explain?
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