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Say No to Markerlights
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 16:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Say No to Markerlights

Just noting my personal preference here and seeing if anyone else is following my line of thought.

Markerlights arn't all that and a bag of potato chips.

First on the bad list....cost. Either through Pathfinders, Skyrays, Sniper Squads or additional wargear markerlights ramp up the cost of a squad considerably. Reducing points that can be used on actual damage weapons and units.

Reduce firepower....Tau are noted for ranged boom boom, every markerlight is just another "weapon" that doesn't hurt the enemy, lowering you volume of fire (considerably if you go with a heavy ML army).

Static....by their nature Markerlights are static (except the Skyray), this makes them all too easy to avoid, making them null and void.

Dependancy....Markerlights are pointless without weapons to fire, with reduced firepower on the field it will be all too easy for an opponent to focus fire on your true firepower, leaving you with a whole load of markerlights....that are actually WORSE than lasguns! (this means they do absolutely no damage )

Well, these are just a few of my points. Just felt like voicing my objections considering there will most likely be a flood of "Marker-cheese" armies popping up.

I for one will stick with my tried and tested (now even cheaper) army list, that has no markerlights...and i think it will do just fine.

So am i alone in my lack of optimism over markerlights?
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 17:05   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

Quote:
First on the bad list....cost.
Yep, they are indeed expensive which means you'll have to be careful to get their worth out of them.

Quote:
Reduce firepower....Tau are noted for ranged boom boom
I disagree. Tau are known for putting lots of firepower where you need it. Markerlights considerably increase that capability.

Quote:
every markerlight is just another "weapon" that doesn't hurt the enemy
Everything that carries a markerlight, except marker drones, has additional weapons it can use instead or in addition to the markerlight.

Quote:
Static
Hard to use, but not null and void IMO.

Quote:
Dependancy....Markerlights are pointless without weapons to fire, with reduced firepower on the field it will be all too easy for an opponent to focus fire on your true firepower, leaving you with a whole load of markerlights
Well if you've taken enough marker carriers to do THAT, you should probably reduce your numbers a bit. =p Personally I'd love it if my opponents constantly ignored my pathfinders for the rest of my army. They're pretty fragile.
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 17:18   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

I haven't used my pathfinders much yet, but I like the tactical flexibility they provide. Yes, they cost a few points, but the advantages they can provide can make up for it. I mean, just in terms of improving BS, for instance...

One full squad of pathfinders will get average of 4 ML hits.

Two squads of Fire Warriors can improve BS to 5, making them count as 3.33 squads of Fire Warriors.

Four squads of Fire Warriors can improve BS to 4, making them count as 5.33 squads of Fire Warriors.

Since a squad of pathfinders costs roughly the same as a squad of Fire Warriors with a Devilfish, the pathfinders increase the effectiveness of the Fire Warriors by more than what a squad of either costs. The other options provided by the Pathfinders are just bonuses that give you tactical options.

Personally, I'm surprised that Pathfinder's are such bullet-magnets. With 36" range, they can deploy behind Fire Warriors and still be effective.


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Old 04 Mar 2006, 17:20   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

You've obviously never seen a FoF done with a BS of 5, or a plasma volley which hits on 2s and kills on 2s.

It's all about how you use them.
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 17:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

I've actually been toying with the idea of a second Pathfinder squad, maybe even a third. With that many pathfinders, I can hit three separate targets, and have the option of taking nine Target Lock/rail rifles for mopping up infantry. I haven't made up my mind yet. I'd like to see the new codex before making a decision like that, and play a few more games with the pathfinders I have. Too bad I'm in Yemen at the moment...


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Old 04 Mar 2006, 17:39   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

Until someone shows me some proof otherwise i wonīt be using markerlights...

they are far too expensive and negate mobility. if i wanted to just sit back and shoot iīd play IG or marines.

i say cheer numbers over wargear with lots of vehicles and infiltrators blitz krieg style.

cheers

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Old 04 Mar 2006, 18:07   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

** Daniel wilson, in the new codex, rail rifles do not have target locks, but they dont overheat either, so you'll have to shoot the same target(which is not always a bad thing, the rail rifles can hurt most targets that you'll be using the ML against (vehicles, monstrous creatures & dangerous squads).

You might want to use 1 larger anti infantry squad (rail rifles + MLs & carbines force pinning checks and allows you to apply a negative modfier (not exactly sure how it works for pinning from the same squad but i think you can still use the ML counters to apply the (cumulative) -1 LD penalty). **


Its perfectly feasible to have a non-ML army, but the ML is a uniqely tau ability, so it would be a bit of a waste to NOT use them.

If you want to play a mass-firepower army, i would suggest you use imperial guard. Tau armies on the other hand are all about fast, mobile pin-point application of firepower against specfic targets to cripple an enemy. The ML's help you neutralise the drawback of having BS of 3, and really allow a tau army to reliably destroy its intended target every turn.

THAT's what tau are all about.
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 18:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

Oh, I heard that rail rifles had target locks that didn't overheat in the new codex. Bloody rumors!

I believe that unless pathfinders have networked markerlights,which I don't believe they do, carbine and rail rifles from the same squad cannot benefit from ML hits.

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Old 04 Mar 2006, 18:32   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

Okay here's what markerlights do for a squad of 12 firewarriors.

12 firewarriors in rapid fire with BS3 (no marker light)
24 shots
50% hit = 12 probable hits (which is further reduced by the roll to wound, and then armour saves)

12 firewarriors in rapid fire with BS5 (markerlight)
24 shots
83.333% hit = 20 probable hits (once again reduced by the roll to wound and armour saves)

Overall an increase of 33.333% efficiency, now that is assuming one markerlight hit and one squad of firewarriors.

Okay now look at a squad of 6 pathfinders (I will assume this is average)

6 pathfinders with BS3
6 shots
50% hit = 3 probable hits

so now with 3 hits you could use this with 3 firewarriors squads....

36 firewarriors in rapid fire with BS3 (no markerlight)
72 shots
50% hit = 36 probable hits (again reduced by the roll to wound and armour saves)

36 firewarriors in rapid fire with BS5 (markerlight)
72 shots
83.333% hit = 60 probable hits (once again this is reduced by the roll to wound and armour saves)
(the equivalent amount of firewarriors(without the markerlight) with this firepower would be approx 60)

So for a 152 point squad you have essentially made 3 squads of firewarriors become 5 squads, which in terms of points is an extra 88 points**

the math....
((5squad's12model's10points)-(3squad's12model's10points)) = 240 points
240 points - 152points (cost of pathfinder squad) = 88 Points**

*Note: This whole post does not take into account the many other ways you can use markerlights (seeker missiles, railguns, negating cover saves, the list goes on and on...)

**Note: This does not even take into account the devilfish, and its weapons or its uses (extra fish for FOF)

So markerlights may seem expensive at first, but in the end they make up there points cost with a sheer increase in firepower from other squads. If I had the time and the knowledge I would also debate the massive versatility of markerlights, but alas I will leave such things to the likes of TonkaTruckDriver and this amazing posts :
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=17630.0

P.S. feel free to correct anything I have misscalculated in this post
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Old 04 Mar 2006, 19:11   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Say No to markelights, say no no no no no!

in paper everything looks great the problem is that equiping units with markerlights is expensive and denies movement.

that and the fact that you need to actually hit the unit with the markerlight before being able to benefict from them.

if you add the cost of the markerlight+ the fact that the model that fires the markerlight wonīt use itīs main weapon + the fact that it might miss + the fact that this unit will be completly static and compare it with the same points cost in good old numbers i donīt think that markerlights will take the advantage.

iīm still waiting to see the new codex before making my mind but unless someone can find a way to use ML and still be able to move i donīt think they will be of much use

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