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Troubles with Death Guard
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 02:24   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Troubles with Death Guard

Scanned the forums and found many people have problems with the great unclean one and his followers.

Having been massacred already and facing a rematch next week, i'm looking for general tactics to use against Death Guard, specifically ones who focus on infiltrate/summoning right on the front lines. (not hard to do on a 48inch square board).

I've thought about using every availiable deep strike myself to try and spread a large force in behind his when they pop down, and focusing on heavy fire from Helios suits, with high volumes of fire coming from stealths/gun drone squads to try and break the guastly T5 inv sv5 plethora of forces.

Does anyone have any success against these Buggers?
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 02:34   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with DG

Hmmm... sounds like he's trying the ol' Daemon-Bomb routine.

My advice, if that is the case, is to pick out anyone who can summon Daemons, and beat the feth out of them with plasma, fusion and Rail. If he has a Greater Daemon, do not let him succeed his Possession roll; you want to kill the Lord first. Do that, and the Daemon becomes unstable, and will be much easier to take out (it may just wipe itself out, if he rolls badly enough).

If he wants to bring normal Daemons into play, he'll need an Icon, or a Greater Daemon. Target both with extreme prejudice. Deep-striking may help, but personally I'd consider mobbing him with Kroot; a fully kitted out squad is looking at 60 attacks on the charge! That, statistically, should pull a couple down. If nothing else, it'll bog him down long enough for the rest of the army to get clear and form up a firing line, thus slaughtering his force when the Kroot eventually fall.
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 02:52   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with DG

Playing on a small board is hard. Playing on a small board against fast assaulty infiltrating tough things that throw DEMONS at you is... well...

But, it can be done. You need two things, IMO:
- Enough mobility to avoid the fast things while you shoot them.
- Enough firepower to blast a hole in his lines so that you have somewhere to mobile TO. Otherwise you will be locked in a corner.

If possible, I would decline to play more than... like... 1250 points on a 4x4 board. That's what I do at the local GW, with two small boards and two large.

A great HQ for this matchup is my personal favorite, the Helios-6 Shas'El. Twin plasma, Fusion, hard wired multitracker, is 96 points of infantry devastation. Depending on how many fast units your opponent has though, this may be a bad idea.
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 03:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with DG

Total foot slogger, last game he started with about 3 plague marines on the board and a dreadnaught, everything else came in summoning, unfortunately i am limited by my units, i have a set 1500pt list until alittle more cash comes in. If my mind serves me correctly its.....

Helios Shas'O, twin Fireknifes, twin deathrains, 6 stealth, 2 units of 12 firewarriors, 16 kroot, 2 units of 8 gundrones, hammerhead, Ionhead, broadside.

Last 1500pts game my drones, 5/6 firewarriors, 3/4 kroot and broadside where all getting painted so left at home, so i was on the back foot from the start playing with a 300pt deficit.

He was lucky with virtually all his reserves coming in turn two, nothing like a Great unclean one, choosen terminators and squads of plaguebearers popping up not 4inches from my front lines (i had to mop up the Tau urine that accompanied the summonings).

If i can get infiltrate and throw the kroot in a central position it could really hurt his infiltration and give me a turn or two of firing (another reason he was on me so fast).

But thanks for the info, shall try a few more heavy hitting Helios loadouts instead of the fireknifes to try and put the hurt on him early on.
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Old 25 Feb 2006, 07:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

My Death Guard have the toughest time against Tau.

The reason being is that my friend that plays Tau has access to plenty of Fire Warriors, plenty of Kroot.

It's not the plasma, nor the fusion, nor the rails that cause me the biggest headache.

It's being forced to roll 8 armour saves, one forced on my champion or my icon bearer.

The single best way to do this is to make sure your next purchase is two more boxes of Fire Warriors.

Also, Stealth Teams are the biggest pain in my [], simply because it's hard to shoot them, they can stay out of assault range for a good while, and will throw in 20 S5 shots in any given turn at me. (Which is going to be even worse with the new markerlight rules).

Also, never use kroot as a CC unit.
They're striking before you, wounding you on 3's.
You're striking after them and wounding them on 5's.

Keep them in a forest (even if it means not infiltrating out of your deployment, but simply being able to deploy last), and use them as a pillbox.

This is the single best way to take advantage of Kroot's (effectively) bolters, WS4 and throwing your rather terrible I3 out the window.

Also, you'll get a tonne of shots off before they charge in, and even if they took Frags, you're getting your attacks at the same time.

Before you get more Fire Warriors, try your proxying more Kroot!


For the same price as a Fire Warrior team with Shas'Ui with markerlight, you can get a mob (not squad, mob) of 20 kroot to use as a defensive line.

Also, they can hold your table quarter/edge like nothing else, because except against flamers, they have the same save as Fire Warriors!


Remember, plasma rifles are only 1 shot (2 once you're in the danger zone), and if you're in range of fusion, then he's in range of rapid firing plasma/melta, which usually isn't a good thing.
That one shot is decent for the first couple turns, but you'll be knocking off a DG guy every now and then which won't amount to too much when they hit your lines.


The other massive advantage of simply pouring terrifying amounts of firepower into your opponent is you can choose to force an armour save on that icon bearer, meaning no Plaguebearers in that area!


When I play against Tau, it's not the AP2 weapons that frighten me (because they can become glorified choppas quite easily), its the firepower where even if I'm in cover, it doesn't matter because I'm going to have to roll (and too often fail) a tonne of armour saves.


Some food for thought.


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Old 26 Feb 2006, 16:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

hey, no worries mate! check out my advice in this thread...i face infiltration death guard all the time. actually, the first game i played against them (also my first game with tau!) i crushed him! oh, and a lil advice...go mech tau. you cant assault what you cant catch!! hehehe! >

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...82.0;topicseen
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Old 26 Feb 2006, 17:16   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

realize that infiltration does not equal fast unit. They are still footsloggers. My advice against deathguard is to outrange him. Plasma and fusion aren't good against them, because they can do it it turn. Remember that they don't have access to heavy weapons, except tanks, which we kill, and an autocannon. The trick is to make him take saves. deathrains and even better, ION CANNONS!!! str 7 means a 2+ to wound and no save. Plus seeker missiles. the braodside is good for killing tanks, but proxy for another ionhead. Kroot aren't good, as they wound on 5, plus get that nasty rot like nobody's business. just remember, missile pods and ion cannons an mech tau are good. oh and plasma and submunitions be bad. wound on 3 plus. this setup also applies to iyenden eldar.
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Old 26 Feb 2006, 17:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

use the Tau mobility to keep out of their range, and just pound them.
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Old 26 Feb 2006, 18:53   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by shasocastris
realize that infiltration does not equal fast unit. They are still footsloggers. My advice against deathguard is to outrange him. Plasma and fusion aren't good against them, because they can do it it turn. Remember that they don't have access to heavy weapons, except tanks, which we kill, and an autocannon. The trick is to make him take saves. deathrains and even better, ION CANNONS!!! str 7 means a 2+ to wound and no save. Plus seeker missiles. the braodside is good for killing tanks, but proxy for another ionhead. Kroot aren't good, as they wound on 5, plus get that nasty rot like nobody's business. just remember, missile pods and ion cannons an mech tau are good. oh and plasma and submunitions be bad. wound on 3 plus. this setup also applies to iyenden eldar.
That only works if you have range. Now I dont play tau but I do play a space marine army based around missel launchers and heavy bolters. Your talking far to many ifs on range. Small boards for example are the death of most tau to most other armys.. And Death Guard are just though. They take the few hits you may get in before they start ramming your essential units. And pray to God they dont figure out how to get to you sooner. Transports are the key cheape effect transports to shuttle your little men out of harms way. Also they make good blocks just sacrifice a transport and you give your dudes more time to plaster them full of shots.. And with the new Wing thingys coming out just ram them down the guys throat to block the retreat of your fire warriors. Fire warriors and stealth suits are the key to your army. Troop heavy armys is the way to go. Broad sides and Troops with transports thats what the tau dude at my gaming club who ive only seen play once, cause im never there says. He seems to win every game or somthing that hes played in. Seems like a good tactic honestly. But its not my tactic maybe hes luky.
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Old 26 Feb 2006, 21:03   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Troubles with Death Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelus569
That only works if you have range. Now I dont play tau but I do play a space marine army based around missel launchers and heavy bolters.
Pure Death Guard can't take heavy weapons in their marine squads, only their vehicles.
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