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I need help please.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 10:27   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default I need help please.

What is the best Tau army list to combat a Tyranid army. I have played my friend about 9 times with my Tau and I have only won 2 (And they where lucky wins). I know I am doing something really wrong. He has got in his army (To select from that is) 2 Tyrants, 5 Warriors, A lot of Gaunts (Sorry do not know the exact number), 2 Lictors, 3 Raveners, 6 Ripper Swarms, 18 Genestealers, 2 Carnifex. Any advice for an army list to combat this Tyranid threat would be really appreciated.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 10:30   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

A point size would be helpful... are we talking 1,000pts or 1,500pts?

Also, you really should be playing missions, if you are not already; your opponent may not do so well when charging across the board at you won't win him the game.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 11:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

Against tyranids here are some units you MUST have:

2 railheads, submunitions in round 1&2, solid shot in round 3 onwards
3 crisis suits with twin linked missile pods and plasma. These guys take out tyranid warriors, then carnifexes with rapid fire
fire warriors in devilfish. hmmmm 6 to hit in combat glancing hits only? seems pretty safe to me.
6 stealth suits. 18 STR5 shots should put a dent in any tie-em-up units he will have, go for the hormagaunts!!!!
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 13:31   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
A point size would be helpful... are we talking 1,000pts or 1,500pts?

Also, you really should be playing missions, if you are not already; your opponent may not do so well when charging across the board at you won't win him the game.
They are usually 1500pt games. And yes more often then not they are missions. And thanks for the advice coolflame.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 17:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

Stealths are GODLY vs tyranids.

15-18 BC shots will often wipe out small genestealer squads, force morale checks on larger gaunt squads, and can even help out with the warriors and tyrants. Also they usually strike first so can actually hold their own in CC vs stuff like mildly upgraded gaunts, lictors, gargoyles; I've even had them do well against raveners.

Also, seeker missles are good at taking out the shooty-fex or the shooty tyrants. Basically if you've got pathfinders, use seekers. Railguns should be used to kill the bigger stuff and railheads should use the sub rounds on smaller stuff, like spinegaunts or hormagaunts. Generally you can ignore the big guys to take out the horde, which is what is the most dangerous aspect of tyranids, IMO.

The Godzilla force is a bit different, but remember that each carnifex is ~150-200 points. Hit the CCs first then blow up the tyrants. if they run tons of rippers, get the FWs to get rid of them. Sub rounds haven't done too much against them in my experience. Seekers are required to take on this army... you need to be able to blow the monsters to shreds ASAP.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 18:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless_Helix
Stealths are GODLY vs tyranids.

15-18 BC shots will often wipe out small genestealer squads, force morale checks on larger gaunt squads, and can even help out with the warriors and tyrants. Also they usually strike first so can actually hold their own in CC vs stuff like mildly upgraded gaunts, lictors, gargoyles; I've even had them do well against raveners.
That's your best bet to wear down the lighter units because they are able to avoid them for the most part and able to weather the return fire from the longest range units (so that they will probably not bother shooting at you, increasing your survivability). Stealths are almost mandatory against the Tyranids.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 19:53   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

I know this has been brought up before, but I don't remember the exact thread...
The most dangerous thing about Tyranids is the fact that they can move extremely quickly and be on your army by turn 3. With the legendary Tau lack of close combat skills, this is the death knell for most static Tau army lists. Mech Tau can help, with the fact that most of your nominal "static components" would be tucked nice and safe inside Devilfish, but you are still left with the problem that they can move as fast or faster than you can.

Please remember that the Tyranids have synapse creatures, usually the Hive Tyrant, Brood lords, and some of the Warriors if they take a certain upgrade (if I remember correctly.) This gives the 'nids a "fearless" leadership rating, which means no morale checks, even if the 'nid units start suffering massive casualties. This can be turned into a liability, if you can pull it off. Since only certain units can have this synapse ability, you immediately know which units to kill off. If you can try to kill these synapse creatures early, you can stop the 'nids in their tracks. They can still shoot at you, but I believe that have to make some sort of Ld roll (instinctive behavior???)

This is a variation of the US Army doctrine of "kill the leaders first". If you chop out the command & control structure, you throw your opponent into complete disarray.

This will require you to throw most of your "heavy" shots( i.e. railgun/seeker missiles) at the Hive Tyrant and other synapse creatures. This can really be enhanced through the use of pathfinder teams. It is risky in the sense that if you fail to kill the synapse creatures early enough, the hormagaunts, gaunts & rippers will be on you before you can whittle down their numbers. However, if you do succeed, you can rip the heart you of the 'nid advance and then spend the rest of the game securing objectives and picking apart the rest of the 'nid army for victory points.

One other point, do not discount the lack of ballistic skill for Tyranids, properly enhanced, a Carnifex can put out a lot of firepower, usually at a decent ballistic skill.

As to the specifics of your case, can you give a rundown of the types/numbers of units you have. It would make visualizing a plan of action easier for all of us.

I agree that stealths work wonders on horde armies. Just make sure to make use of terrain and their assault move to keep them out of trouble. Also, pathfinders will get quickly chewed on if they are in an exposed position. Either have a quick means of escape handy, or screen them in with the rest of your forces. Hammerheads are great, I would take 2-3 with at least 2 rails, 1 ion cannon for the third tank. Crisis work well with a mix of BC/ML/PR on them. Flamers are an interesting choice, especially against the little 'nids, but they require you to get within assault range.

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Old 22 Feb 2006, 20:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtisxxxv
Please remember that the Tyranids have synapse creatures, usually the Hive Tyrant, Brood lords, and some of the Warriors if they take a certain upgrade (if I remember correctly.)
Warriors have this ability for free, as do Hive Tyrants, Broodlords and possibly Zoanthropes if upgraded to be Synapse creatures.

Quote:
They can still shoot at you, but I believe that have to make some sort of Ld roll (instinctive behavior???)
Outside of Synapse, most units (not Biovores or Genestealers mainly) need to make a test or fall back...or alternatively lurk in cover.

Quote:
One other point, do not discount the lack of ballistic skill for Tyranids, properly enhanced, a Carnifex can put out a lot of firepower, usually at a decent ballistic skill.
I have never valued them as much of a shooty unit...it's just a distraction to me, really. A Carnifex does it's damage in close combat, that's it. While they can throw out a lot of weak shots or a few really powerful shots against your vehicles...it's not all that much to worry about and a hell of a lot less than most armies. Gaunts can't shoot or they lose their Fleet move so please, shoot all you want

Also, don't neglect that while Hormagaunts are fast, they are actually not very good in close combat. If you expect to be charged by them, take Photon nades and let them hit you- they will probably lose a combat because of their terrible armour and from their heavy casualties in getting there. If on foot and they are within 18", move forward and rapid fire. Even if they charge you, they will almost certainly lose...especially if you have those Photon nades. I wouldn't take them very often, but against horde armies...well...they have their uses and if your enemy doesn't bank on them, they're handy
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 20:08   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: I need help please.

Thanx you guys. I think that was where I was going wrong that I did not take much Stealths. And when I did use them I was a bit hesitant to get them close. Everything that you guys have said has been take abroard. I can't wait intill I get the big Tau army boxed set. I am so going to whipe the smile off my friends face.
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Old 22 Feb 2006, 21:43   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
Stealths are almost mandatory against the Tyranids.
Except against the Godzilla force. Stealths are take 'em or leave 'em when you're facing 20ft tall monstrosities in large numbers. If it's a Rippers/ Tyrants/ Warriors/Carnifex fleet, stealths are very useful for dealing with the rippers and warriors, but against a straight monsterous creature team, load up on Broadsides and crisis. You're not going to want to get that close.
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