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Destroying Eldar Skimmers?
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Old 10 Feb 2006, 21:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Has anyone here had as much problems with Eldar Skimmers as I have?

With speed protection and holo - fields they are almost literally impossible to destroy! They can dodge your units with a high number of shots (FW's) and shrug off ridiculous amounts of Railgun and Missile Pod shots.

Crazy as this sounds I can't actually remember destroying Eldar Skimmers. My few victories against Eldar have been a result of taking out the rest of his troops (our tournaments have a Phase Out rule for all armies)

Does anyone have a solution to this?
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Old 10 Feb 2006, 21:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Sorry, I don't have a solution. For me, Eldar skimmers are nice fat targets... and that was before I got my Death Rain (TL Missile Pods) suits.
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Old 10 Feb 2006, 22:23   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Missile pods, I guess... seekers may be useful as well. I've played a saim hann army with dozens of vypers, as well as a biel-tan army with 3 major skimmers. Neither experience was satisfying.

Just shoot them... a lot.
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Old 10 Feb 2006, 23:14   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Let's see how the Eldar skimmers go up aginst Sky Rays! ;D
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Old 10 Feb 2006, 23:27   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Ion cannons and Death Rain suits work well against Eldar, assuming they use holo-fields, and that I calculated correctly:
A Ion Cannon will score 0.667 hits (glance or pene)
A Twin Missile will score 0.500 hits
A Railgun will score 0.333 hits

Even without holo-fields, the Ion Cannon will work better than the Railgun, however, in this case the Twin Missile will be the weakest option.

The sky ray will also be very strong against Eldar skimmers, with or without holo.
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Old 11 Feb 2006, 11:54   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Hi,

You stats are correct for the Wave field that is on wave serpents (max str 8 against it).

Against the holifield that is always on falcons (roll 2D6 and pick the lowest for damage result) the railgun gets better.

Also what should be compared is the cost effectiveness of the shooting. A regular Railhead is 165 pts, Ionhead 145 pts, and the twin-missile suit with target lock is 56 pts. If the rumoured pts changes for crisis suits in the new codex is right the twin missile suit will drop in pts to 48, and you could have the option to give it BS4 rather than a target lock for an extra 5 pts.

To compare the units lets look at the cost to have an average of 1 damage roll turn.

Against the wave field the previous post had the correct average number of damage rolls. If we take the cost of the unit and divide by the average number of damage rolls we get the cost to get an average of 1 hit per turn.
Railhead: 165 / 0.333 = 495
Ionhead: 145 / 0.667 = 217.5
Twin Missile (Existing codex): 56 / 0.5 = 102
Twin Missile (New codex): 48 / 0.5 = 96
BS4 Twin Missile (New codex): 53 / 0.593 = 89.4

Railhead against Falcon: 165 / 0.555 = 297

This shows that the deathrain crisis suits are twice as good as the ionhead and 5 times as good as the railhead for it's pts. To give a full evaluation you have to look at their manourability, survivability, range as well.

Manourability: Both crisis suits and hammerheads are manourability. The hammerheads just edge it because it's nice to be able to move the full 12" before firing.

Survivability: If there's good terrain then Jump-Shoot-Jump is even more survivability that the very tough hammerhead armour.

Range: The hammerheads win on straight range, but 36" is normally good enough, particularly as the elite crisis suits are deployed nearly last as opposed to first like the hammerheads, which allows you to put the crisis suit in the position it's most.

My advice against eldar is to add atleast a unit of 2 twin missile crisis suits. I would keep atleast one hammerhead with a railgun as the submunition is murder against eldar troops.

Good luck

Rathstar
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Old 11 Feb 2006, 12:08   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

I hate freaking Eldar transports. The tanks is alot easier to destroy for some reason. Personally I don't understand why would a person field a tank anyway. The only suggestion is that I can give is to make sure you give a some sort of effect on one tank and move to the next. That way they can't shoot at you. Hopefully you'll have them to where they can't move. Weapon destroyed helps out with points but sometimes you won't to try to put a statis effect to have it don't shoot at all. The worse I seen these guys do is tank shock you. The sad reality is it is hard to stop the tank shock. The only blessing is that a roll of three it can't move on a glance. next turn it's gonna be a penatrating hit instead of a glancing.
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Old 11 Feb 2006, 12:39   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?


The waveserpent is tough because of the wavefield it gets for free, but a tooled up falcon can be a pain to down.

It should have a holofield so that you roll 2D6 and pick the lowest for damage. It should have another upgrade which allows results 1-3 on the glancing blow table to be reduced on a dice roll. Finally it should always be moving over 6" to get only glancing blows.

If you glance it, you've only got a 1 in 9 chance of downing it, because you must roll 5 or 6 on both dice. If you get 1-3 (75% chance) he can downgrade it on a dice roll; 4+ ignores a can't shoot result. 4-5 reduces a can't move or shoot to can't shoot, and a 6 ignores can't move or shoot completely.

I take it you eldar opponent isn't using these upgrades on his falcons ?

The advice to move onto firing at another vehicle once it can't move or shoot is a good one. It reduced the firepower from multiple vehicles, and you can get penetrating hits next turn when it'll be much easier to destroy.

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Old 11 Feb 2006, 12:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathstar

The waveserpent is tough because of the wavefield it gets for free, but a tooled up falcon can be a pain to down.

It should have a holofield so that you roll 2D6 and pick the lowest for damage. It should have another upgrade which allows results 1-3 on the glancing blow table to be reduced on a dice roll. Finally it should always be moving over 6" to get only glancing blows.

If you glance it, you've only got a 1 in 9 chance of downing it, because you must roll 5 or 6 on both dice. If you get 1-3 (75% chance) he can downgrade it on a dice roll; 4+ ignores a can't shoot result. 4-5 reduces a can't move or shoot to can't shoot, and a 6 ignores can't move or shoot completely.

I take it you eldar opponent isn't using these upgrades on his falcons ?

The advice to move onto firing at another vehicle once it can't move or shoot is a good one. It reduced the firepower from multiple vehicles, and you can get penetrating hits next turn when it'll be much easier to destroy.

Rathstar
Actually the falcan did had the annoying up grades. But the where easier to deal tith due to 5 rail guns. All I need is a 2 for glance. In the other case I needed a 4 to glance. So I was alays glacning the falcon but had a harder time glancing the transports.

funny thing about that battle I wiped out all his men, the dark reapers was first to go and his seer concel of 9 warlocks and 3 farseers ran off the table in front of my troops laying down 60+ shots at them. I had had blew up one transport, one transport had a weapon destroyed, two falcons had weapon destroyed, and 2 vypers was destroyed. but he had a falcon and a transport left. due to quiting because his seer councel ran off the table. he rolled 10 twice that was priceless. O0
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Old 11 Feb 2006, 14:06   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Destroying Eldar Skimmers?

Well, other players can say we are anooying too. Disruption pod, decoy launcher, and etc... we can just be eaily annoying.

Against the flow of misslepods/railheads/ionheads, did anyone think of deepstriking drones BEHIND the falcon or waveserpent? If I remeber corrrectly, wavefield only works on the front and sides. NOT the back! Thus, we can easily shoot it down with a squad of gun drones. This can also be said about the falcon.
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