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Muhuwahahaha!!!
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Muhuwahahaha!!!

10 FW shooting marines. With new, markerlight guided power!

10 FW, guided to BS5 by Markerlights... can't be good for marines can they?

Outside of 12"

10 Shots.

8.3 Hit

5.533 Wound

1.844 Are unsaved...

That means 3.688 within rapid fire range.

Translation: Two squads of FW rapid firing will kill 8 marines

But what of Stealths? Could they cause greivous harm to marines?

Pretend it is a unit of six StealthsAssume they are guided by two ML, causing BS 5.

18 shots!

15 Hit!

10 wound!

3.333 Marines bite the dust.

Impressive. I see "shoot them with lots of pulse fire" -type armies being more viable! In an age of Vespids, ML make the best bacic infantry weapon in the game better.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

i rly dont understand what ur saying? r u finding the percent f how many marines shuld die on average?

Edit by RJay: English would be good.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:15   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

I'm saying before you go crazy with sniper drones and vespids, pulse fire works well enough with markerlights.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:16   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

Yorikai - Yes, isn't it fairly obvious? It's using laws of averages, something that people tend to do alot of on the boards.

MechTau - ikes! I'll actually have to worry about my friends markerlighting Shas'Ui... untill now, the cannon rule has been that all AP rolls against my Falcon will be 1s, and his submunitions will always miss unless I have Fortune and Conceal on the threatened unit.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:21   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

Actually, your friend should have Marker Drones. Their Networked markerlight (I believe) allows the unit it is attatched to to use it.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 04:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

Massed pulsefire would work well.. but consider the greater availability of AP3. Every wound caused = a death, compared to pulse fire where only 1/3 would die.

Let's take a point-for-point comparison - an 80 point unit.

8 Fire Warriors - or one Sniper Drone team.

8 Fire Warriors (Ranged Shot)
BS3 - 4 hits, 2.666 wounds, 0.889 unsaved
BS4 - 5.3 hits, 3.555 wounds, 1.185 unsaved
BS5 - 6.7 hits, 4.444 wounds, 1.481 unsaved

8 Fire Warriors (Rapid Fire)
BS3 - 8.0 hits, 5.333 wounds, 1.778 unsaved
BS4 - 10.7 hits, 7.111 wounds, 2.370 unsaved
BS5 - 13.3 hits, 8.889 wounds, 2.963 unsaved

Sniper Drone Team
BS3 - 1.5 hits, 1.250 wounds, 1.250 unsaved
BS4 - 2.0 hits, 1.667 wounds, 1.667 unsaved
BS5 - 2.5 hits, 2.083 wounds, 2.083 unsaved

Now, lets just consider what just happened. An 80 point Fire Warrior squad doesn't have any markerlight support. So we use the BS3 result. IF it did have markerlight support, it would have to come from other models, meaning more points just to make them shoot better. Sniper Drones - they are great. If their markerlight misses, then we use the BS3 result. If it hits, we use the BS4 result. To achieve the BS5 result, we would need another external markerlight hit. For the example with the stealths - that's one expensive unit once you factor in the unit cost, and the source of the markerlight hits. Sniper drones do it better That's why I'm definately getting some sniper drones (better range, even against the effective range of stealths, and the stealth field generator).
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 06:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

maybe ill put some sniper drines in my army now along with a 'Vre stealth who has a mrkerlight seems good enough. use stealths to fire away at one squad and use their markerlight then firwe warriors do the same with their hieghtened BS and they blam away with another ML repeat until bored or satisfied with results
 
Old 05 Feb 2006, 13:30   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=17909.msg281033#msg281033 date=1139118527]
Massed pulsefire would work well.. but consider the greater availability of AP3. Every wound caused = a death, compared to pulse fire where only 1/3 would die.
The advantage of Pulse fire is that it's effective against all opponents whereas our newly acquired plethora of AP3 is only really useful against 3+ saves. Here's a sneak-peak of a bit from an article on Vespids that I'm working on, although you could just as easily extend it to Sniper Teams as well.

[hr]

In general, specializing a unit to a particular task is a good thing. It makes that unit more efficient (kills per point) and easier to use on the tabletop... the unit with AP2 weaponry goes after enemy with 2+ saves, not difficult! That being said, extremely specialized units should only be considered if one of two cases is present:
  • The target type we're specializing against is (almost) always going to be present. This is the case with Deathrains. Most armies include some type of light vehicles, and those that don't generally have a high Toughness and/or 4+ save unit of high priority (Wraithlords, Tyranid Warriors, C'Tan, Necron Destroyer, etc).
  • The target type we're specializing against is so dangerous that even if not all of our opponents will include them, we need to provide an efficient and effective way to deal with them anyhow... and quickly. This is primarily the case with 2+ saves. Flying Hive Tyrants and Terminators are deadly, and we can't just ignore them for 6 turns.

To be certain, Marines and other 3+ save armies do make up the majority of opponents you'll face in a "take all comers" setting, however they don't make up all of them. Against Orks, 'Nids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, IG and Kroot Mercs, Neutron Blasters are just expensive Pulse shots. Additionally, standard Meq infantry is not so deadly that it truly requires a unit uniquely specialized to removing it, in the way that Terminators do. Furthermore, standard Meq infantry is not so hard to kill with Pulse fire that it requires a specialized solution for dealing with it.

In conclusion, I don't feel that AP3 weaponry in general and Vespids in particular fit into either of the two categories above. A small/medium sized unit of Vespid make a nice reserve force to respond to especially dangerous/imminent threats, however loading up heavily on Vespid will only make you unecessarily vulnerable to Horde armies, vehicle heavy armies and/or 2+ save heavy armies.
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Old 05 Feb 2006, 14:32   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Muhuwahahaha!!!

We often focus on MeQ but imagine what these changes will mean to swarm armies. Large units of nid gaunts will be especially vulnerable to massed fire from rapid firing FW (20 hits/13.3 kills) or stealth suits (15 hits/10 kills). Four marker hits can pretty much neuter large swarms. So a Mech Tau army with two mounted FW teams and a Pathfinder Team can be even more devastating.

An adaptive tactic against Tau may be for swarm armies to use lots of moderate sized units and make us overkill a unit, wasting our firepower. Appropriate, fine tuned use of MLs and ML-generating units may be the new "mech tau."

--Shas'o Fle'gha
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