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Why are Vespids Bad?
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:24   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Why are Vespids Bad?

Without revealing enough to make GW send a lawyer and a hit squad, why are Vespids bad? I heard from many people that the Vespids are bad. Do they cost too much? Are they too short-ranged?
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:28   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

I dont know to much about them and I already dont like them.

Their weapon is Str 5, ap 3, and I think thats just pure marine killing weapon, makeing the tau even more of a noob army.

And I also realy hate the modles.
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:35   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

What now way tau is a nooby army. Its one of the hardest to state as. Marines now thats a nooby army.
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

ok look, vespid models have been stated as hideos looking and cheesy. But on the contrary i think the models are great looking and are not the cheesy noob models that people think. I trust gamesworkshop when it comes tobalancing out forces, people have been speculating about the strength of the vespids guns;ap3 str3, ap5 str3 etc..... but noone has really stated a fixed armour save or toughness, for all we know vespids might be the greatest basic marine killers we will ever now but they mighthave a save that will make tyranids look good, or they might wear less armour then a naturalist so i for one trust gamesworkshop on this one

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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

I always found marines to be one of the more difficult ones to be honest, given that because of the need for AP3 stuff in an opposing army, if they know they will be fighting just marines and marines types they can make you suffer for a mistake. And because each individual model is a much larger % of your force yet still dying like guardsmen its not just carte blanche to do whatever tactics you like.

The main critism about Vespids is that they are going to have a hard time doing what they are supposed to - i.e killing marines well, or at least better than anyone else in the Tau list, let alone other books.

Low armour, high points cost/small squad size and single wounds (apparently one of the original ideas, or rumours at least was to have them as larger ogre sized things, though I can see why this was changed to reduce competition with suits) means that they can't really stand up to a marine squad and live, especially as their guns are within rapid range (lacking JSJ). Not to mention that they can't take an assault either.
They are two expensive, don't get enough shots and have too poor accuracy to cause a marine squad to feel really threatened by them unless its heavily outnumbered (min marines vs max vespid).

A vespid unit is not going to be running around and destroying tactical squads - it will be mainly focused on taking down smaller squads or remanants of things already dealt with by they rest of the army. However in most cases there are things that do this better - its just the fast attack slot that makes them worth considering outside of huge expensive swarms (who are too obvious yet weak a target).

They probably do have their uses, but their lack of JSJ in favour of speed (they swap it for Fleet I think, + the additional assault move which you wouldn't usually use anyway) means they find it harder to take cover compared to other options.

In short, people are concerned that they just arn't competitive for their points, and even potentially their slot (up against pirhanas moving faster and being fusion armed and pathfinders ability to boost the rest of the low AP weapons as well as carrying Rail Rifles for some extra shots)

[edit] its been mentioned by people who have read the stores pre-view copies of the codex. Vespids have ork toughness and DE Initative with an IG statline other than that. LD is lower than IG's for basic troops but is boosted significantly by the Strain leader who also grants the ability to be Markerlit
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 20:54   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avor
I dont know to much about them and I already dont like them.

Their weapon is Str 5, ap 3, and I think thats just pure marine killing weapon, makeing the tau even more of a noob army.
Well, while that may appear to be true, it is not quite as simple as that.

- The Marines' standardboltguns can shoot twice as far as the Vespid's weapon.
- Marines firing 10 Boltguns outside of rapidfire range (and out of range of the Vespid's weapons) will cut down at least 3 or 4 Vespids.
- Unaided, a full squad of Vespids will only take out 3 or 4 Marines, and leave the Vespid squad well within Rapid Fire and Assualt range of the surviving Marines.
- While the Vespids may go first in an assault with Marines, they won't normally last very long (Marines have better WS, S, and Armour Saves).

Vespids will take some care and skill to be used effectively.

Hardly a "noob's" first choice.


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Old 26 Jan 2006, 21:02   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

yeah i heartily agree ;D
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 21:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

vespids are going to need that 6" assault move that crisis suits get. that way they can hover(fly,run whatever) up, unleash absolute hell downing a few marines and then back flip right out of assault range. they're still not out of rapid fire range but hey, your fire warriors will ahev downed the rest by then.
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 21:27   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

thats hardly going to happen :'(
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Old 26 Jan 2006, 22:15   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why are Vespids Bad?

I'd say the Necrons are the most Nooby army. 3+ armour save and a 4+ ressurection? They are insanely solid, and their weapons aren't bad. They also have a deep - striking monolith. And lords with Veil of Darkness. And ressurection Orb. You get the gist.
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