[daniel.wilson]

So I thought I'd add to the "Points Effectiveness" post and throw out a few new Helios suit configurations I haven't seen that are good against marines, and see what's effective. All results are for 12" and less range.

Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker at BS3 kills 1.25 marines
The Helios configuration.
Advantages: Big killing power, effective against vehicles.
Disadvantages: Better configurations exist for weaker armored opponents.
Most effective at short range.

Options: - Targetting Array(for BS4, in IA3, probably in new codex) instead of multitracker. Yeah, you give up a Fusion Blaster shot at close range against marines, but the increased BS almost makes up for it, and the Fusion Blaster hits more often against vehicles. At BS4, kills 1.1 marines

- Twinlinking Plasma Rifles. Again, you lose the advantage of the multitracker. But TL Plasma Rifles do just as much damage as do a Plasma Rifle and Fusion Blaster. At 12"+, the TL Plasma Rifles are 50% more effective than the single Plasma Rifle on the standard Helios. At BS 3, kills 1.25 marines, same as standard Helios.

- Twinlinking Fusion Blasters. Good for a vehicle hunter, I suppose. But the rapid firing Plasma Rifle is more effective against marines than a TL Fusion Blaster. This is probably the weakest option here against marine armor. At BS 3, the Plasma Rifle kills .832 marines and the TL Fusion Blaster kills .625 marines

- Twinlinked Plasma Rifles plus Targetting Array. The ultimate marine killer? At BS 4, kills 1.5625 marines. More than any other, but lacking a Fusion Blaster for heavy vehicle armor.

Hardwire Multitracker Options
For those suits with the capability of of taking a hardwired multitracker, your options increase. You now have a hardpoint for twinlinking or a targetting array(as of IA3, targetting array is not hardwireable).
- Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster. My personal favorite. At BS 3, kills 1.666 marines.
- Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array. At BS 4, kills 1.666 marines. What makes it different from the above option? This option is better against vehicles, firing with BS 4. The above option is better at marine killing at 12"+.
- Twinlinked Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle. At BS 3, kills 1.4583 marines. Thats not bad, really. Against multiwound space marine models, its probably better than it looks, killing models outright with toughness of 4 or less. However, this is not nearly as effective as other setups past 12".

Phew! Well, I'd hoped to look at Plasma Rifle/Missile Pod and TL Missile Pod configurations, but duty calls!

[Calaban]

regarding options: Markerlights would add a lot to the selection, once the new codex comes out. with the markerlighted BS bonuses, another oddball way to kill marines may be to force the rule of numbers a bit:

Crisis Config "NoName": Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Drone controllerw/2 Gun Drones, HW multitracker.

this oddball throws 7 dice at a target 18" away, and is able to mow down hoards and tranports equally well... WITH added durability against Krak missiles! while this looks iffy, with 2 markerlights on the target, all 7 could fire at +2 BS (I was about to say all BS5, but the drones would be twin linked BS4), logging 6 hits on average... while all marines get saves, this is still better than plasma rifle kill ratio, or pretty much any other setup in the old rules

;D I cant wait for the brave new Tau world!!!

[Mrpockets]

just get a shas o with a pulse rifle or fusion blaster (pulse works better vs unles they have grey knights) witha shield gen and mussile pod w/ hard wired tgt lock. then attach him to a gun drone or similarly equipped crisis team and watch the carnage

in most battles my shas o kills around 2 squads of space marines a game sometimes more never less and the missile pod is good for hitting the back of a land speeder or something right in the back armore

[Aarhus]

Theoryhammer only goes so far.

I've seen a Shas'el with burst cannon/missile pod take out an entire squad of Khornate berserkers in two rounds of firing.

I've seen Twin Plasma/Shields get four full turns off of shooting and not kill a single model (because smart marine players use cover!)

I think the best way to kill marines is not to ignore the armour saves, because chances are, they may be in ruins (4+), or have a 5+ save (termi-armour, forests).


The best way to kill Marines is terrifying amounts of S4 and S5 weaponry.

Fire Warriors, Stealth Teams, Kroot and many non-ap3 weapons.

Even a Submunition shot can take down plenty of marines if your opponent is unfortunate enough.

It's also great for taking out cocky units of Kasrkin or Scouts.


If you pour enough fire into marines (even Death Guard), they'll fall.

I have a Tau friend who has 20 Kroot, 12 Firewarriors and a 4 man stealth team in 400pts.

I have yet to defeat it with my Death Guard.


Remember, Plasma will only get you so far.


Cheers,
Lawrence.

[Lanfeix]

yet if there only was some way kinda wepoan which would ingore armour and cover saves ... i love pathfinder and seeker missles

[daniel.wilson]

There's some good points here. I haven't taken into account cover saves, since it's rarely an issue for me. Usually, the marines I'm fighting are trying to get with bolter or assault range before the end of turn 6, while being harassed by Crisis suit fire. They don't normally take cover since the Crisis suits jump away, leaving them with no target. I believe one of the new tactical applications of Pathfinders is to reduce cover saves.

Calaban,
That's an interesting config, especially in a situation where marines do have substantial cover.
Burst Cannon at BS 3 kills .333 marines
Missile Pod at BS 3 kills .277 marines
Two Gun Drones at BS 2, twinlinked, kill .2468 marines
for a total of .8568 marines

Whereas my ol' favorite, TL Plasma, Fusion, HW Multitracker, kills .555 marines if they have a 3+ cover save and .833 marines with a 4+ cover save, at 12".

That's definitely a configuration worth consideration, especially with an opponent who loves his cover saves, and with the new drone rules. Another option may be the Heavy Gun Drone. This was in Imperial Armor 3, but I haven't heard of it going into the new codex. Basically, it's a drone with twinlinked burst cannons. It's points cost may make it not worth it, but it's definitely an option to consider.

I used to use Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker Crisis suits when I first started playing the Tau, but I was frustrated with the performance of the Missile Pods, which could fire practically every turn, but rarely do any damage.

Just one other stupid note, a single gun drone kills .123456790123456790... marines.

[Lanfeix]

you should use frations less rounding errors and easier to read

a drone has 10/81 chance of killing a marine

[daniel.wilson]

I find the fractions harder to compare. 10/81 vs. 3/56 is easier to compare when it's .123456790... vs .05357...

[Lanfeix]

Originally Posted by daniel.wilson

I find the fractions harder to compare. 10/81 vs. 3/56 is easier to compare when it's .123456790... vs .05357...

i find the other harder, i supose it depends how you think.

[Delvaurius]

Put a common denominator on it and fractions become a world easier...

Anyway, in my opinion, the ultimate weapon for killing space marines is obviously the plasma rifle, good strength, perfect AP value and not bad range... I mix it with a missile pod to give both some ranged assault against troops (while the AP value isnt great for marine killing, though 1/3 of every marine should fail the Armour save) which adds up before geting close with plasma, and missile pods also provide the oppurtunity for pot shots against vehicles and bikes etc.