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Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)
View Poll Results: Communism vs. Socialist
Communism 6 30.00%
Socialist 3 15.00%
Other? 11 55.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 14 Jan 2006, 19:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

DEF S
communism
an adherent or advocate of communism
2 capitalized : COMMUNARD
3 a capitalized : a member of a Communist party or movement b often capitalized : an adherent or advocate of a Communist government, party, or movement
4 often capitalized : one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary activities

Socialist
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


you decide " FOR THE GREATER GOOD


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Look over this and tell me tau are not one or the other
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Old 14 Jan 2006, 19:50   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

Well, the fact that the Tau have a caste system is a point against this idea. Socialism is based on philosophy that ran counter to the very stratified class system prevalent in Europe at the time.

Tau are probably closer to Socialism than they are to Communism, but we still don't know enough about their economy to say that for sure.

The idea of sacrifice for "The Greater Good" is not unique to Socialism or Communism. It has been a component of every militant culture in human history, regardless of their political structure.

I would say that the Tau are an overriding Hereditary Theocratic Oligarchy (the Ethereals) with a secondary Meritocratic Parliament (the leaders of the Castes selected by the Ethereals).
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Old 14 Jan 2006, 20:34   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

Dictatorship of the Proletariate(Ethreals)

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Old 14 Jan 2006, 22:09   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

Ethereals are not a proletariat...

Quote:
Look over this and tell me tau are not one or the other
'K

Quote:
an adherent or advocate of communism
2 capitalized : COMMUNARD
3 a capitalized : a member of a Communist party or movement b often capitalized : an adherent or advocate of a Communist government, party, or movement
No Tau has ever said anything about communism, to my knowledge, so we do not know whether they adhere to that philosophy.

Quote:
4 often capitalized : one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary activities
Well this fits, they do engage in subversive and revolutionary activities. However this is a terrible definition of "communist".

Quote:
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
The earth caste produce and distribute, with probably some help from the air and water castes, which would each handle specific parts of the distribution. This is not collective or governmental. We do not know who decides what to produce, or how much of it.

Quote:
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
We do not know the state of private property in the empire. I seem to remember Kais had a data disc that his father gave him, but that's about it... There may or may not be "ownership" by any or all of the Tau.

Quote:
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Definitely not, there is no pay.

The problem with this sort of discussion is that people generally do not know what communist or socialist really mean, thanks to the cold war and the right wing which have generally defined both to mean "the bad guys".
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 00:11   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

I believe they are socialists. Communism relies on a completely classless system. Everyone is even... but the ethereals are considered high up, so thats not it. A socialistic believe is one in which popular collectives control the power. Socialistic beliefs work on the welfare of the whole, rather then the individual.
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 01:27   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

I believe they are what Khanaris said... although the closest Gue'la equivilant is being a commy.
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 02:01   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaliel
I believe they are socialists. Communism relies on a completely classless system. Everyone is even... but the ethereals are considered high up, so thats not it. A socialistic believe is one in which popular collectives control the power. Socialistic beliefs work on the welfare of the whole, rather then the individual.
Refer to my post. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat (Ethreals in this case) is the second to last step. The Ethreals will never step down though and we know that. As for the class system no one class is more important then the other (except for the Ethreals). They are all simply "from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her work."
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 04:09   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

Communism and Socialism are distinctly economic systems, even though they may have distinct political and social implications, but out of all the fluff that i have read, none of it has pointed to either. Personally, I dont really see the tau eceonomy working like a human economy. With the Greater Good and all, I had always invisioned more of a system within the empire or mutual aid. If some earth caste scientists needed supplies or man power, and it was necessary to the greater good, they would get it. The only people that i could ever see dealing with economics in the way that we see it would be the water caste who deal most commonly with non-tau in a non-confrontational way.
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 12:45   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

I think there are many points and ways to view this but its all up to you i think Commy's but thats just me
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Old 15 Jan 2006, 16:48   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Communism vs. Socialist (Tau political structure)

The Tau are a Platonic Republic (complete with Philosopher-Kings) with some Asian elements added in. Trying to describe it as either communistic or socialistic is totally inaccurate. There is no Communist Party, no Politburo and no labor ownership or control of the means of production.

That the Tau aspire to set aside individuality and personal ambition in service of the Greater Good has much more in common with any number of Asian societies (Japan comes to mind) than any sort of communism.
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